Here are the Canon EOS R7 and Canon EOS R10
- Thread starter tiggy@mac.com
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The R7 feels a bit meh! In some ways it looks great, price is ok but feels like a missed opportunity. Low res EVF, ugly 4 way controller, soft 4K 60p.
And the lenses...disappointing. Where is a decent bright APS-C zoom or wideangle? For the M at least we had a tiny and cheap 22mm pancake,
for these the only option is the much bigger and more expensive 35mm RF.
And the lenses...disappointing. Where is a decent bright APS-C zoom or wideangle? For the M at least we had a tiny and cheap 22mm pancake,
for these the only option is the much bigger and more expensive 35mm RF.
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My impressions: R7 vs. R10 have r5 vs r6 or m5 vs m50 philosophy of spec development.
Comparing 18-150 between efm and rfs mounts (on bh): RFS lens is $20 cheaper and 10g heavier! Will we see the remaining efm lenses transformed to rfs? 22f2, 11-22 etc.
No rangefinder body! While this might be attractive for an R user, still not a replacement for eos m6 user! I'll be also curious about a rangefinder, full-frame, R camera!
Comparing 18-150 between efm and rfs mounts (on bh): RFS lens is $20 cheaper and 10g heavier! Will we see the remaining efm lenses transformed to rfs? 22f2, 11-22 etc.
No rangefinder body! While this might be attractive for an R user, still not a replacement for eos m6 user! I'll be also curious about a rangefinder, full-frame, R camera!
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I went to Canon's website and looked at them (now that they're officially announced). Looks like the the R7 is a mirrorless 90D and digic X processor with IBIS and upgraded video capabilities (Canon Log3). Not meant to be the 90D replacement, but instead the 7DII replacement using the 90D sensor (no BSI, etc). Not exactly cutting edge, but a good combination for birders, etc, and still very performant. I'm confused about the apparent lack of a battery grip accessory though. Even the 80D/90D/7D series had that. Maybe Canon hasn't announced that yet, or maybe the existing grip for the R6/R5 will also work with it. For a "pro level" it's a bit weird that there isn't one out of the gate.
The R10 looks like either the 80D or M50MkII or 77D sensor paired with Digic X. No dual card slots, no IBIS, smaller battery, more pedestrian features. etc. Smacks of entry level digital rebel, which is totally fine. At less than $1K, they'll sell a lot of them.
The R7 strikes me as the 7D line replacement and the R10 the rebel line replacement, which leaves the 80D/90D line ambiguous. Granted, the 90D blew the doors off the 7DII in many ways, but still was missing "pro level" features like dual card slots, so the R7 with dual card slots tells me this body is the "pro level" APS-C. Maybe there isn't enough differentiation between the 80D/90D and 7D series in mirrorless land to make doing a mirrorless version of them worth it, which I'd actually be fine with too as the R7 is literally a $300 difference from the 90D, so maybe the R7 is a merged 7D/90D line and what they have now is all the differentiation that will happen except maybe at some point the EF-M line replacment.
All in all, a good RF APS-C initial level set. It'll only go up from here.
The R10 looks like either the 80D or M50MkII or 77D sensor paired with Digic X. No dual card slots, no IBIS, smaller battery, more pedestrian features. etc. Smacks of entry level digital rebel, which is totally fine. At less than $1K, they'll sell a lot of them.
The R7 strikes me as the 7D line replacement and the R10 the rebel line replacement, which leaves the 80D/90D line ambiguous. Granted, the 90D blew the doors off the 7DII in many ways, but still was missing "pro level" features like dual card slots, so the R7 with dual card slots tells me this body is the "pro level" APS-C. Maybe there isn't enough differentiation between the 80D/90D and 7D series in mirrorless land to make doing a mirrorless version of them worth it, which I'd actually be fine with too as the R7 is literally a $300 difference from the 90D, so maybe the R7 is a merged 7D/90D line and what they have now is all the differentiation that will happen except maybe at some point the EF-M line replacment.
All in all, a good RF APS-C initial level set. It'll only go up from here.
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The naysayers really are out in force! Here is an extra couple of good points for the R7:
1. Price gouging in UK has dropped to only 6% vs EU from 11% and is about the same as the US price.
2. There is a 15 shot burst pre mode for half pressed shutter at last.
The price is unexpectedly low, I was expecting R6 levels. It's on my shopping list. According to the Japanese website, availability late June.
1. Price gouging in UK has dropped to only 6% vs EU from 11% and is about the same as the US price.
2. There is a 15 shot burst pre mode for half pressed shutter at last.
The price is unexpectedly low, I was expecting R6 levels. It's on my shopping list. According to the Japanese website, availability late June.
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Well it's interesting.
As a 30+ year Canon user - I hate the R7. There's absolutely no way i wanted that dial repositioned. Who thought of that idea? Even the muscle memory switching between R10 and R7 would be a pain in the ass. I'm not sure what the wisdom there was. Why didn't they just shove in the 1 series joystick and leave the rest of the ergos "canon standard" This reminds me of the failed MFbar on the EOS R.
The R7 and R10 look good specwise- but I would have rather had clear matching ergonomics like we "almost" had with the EF lineup with the 5D/6D and 7D/90D. They aren't "new" sensors. maybe manufacturered on a different design rule, but essentially they are the same. DIGIC X has more of an impact on how much data the camera can handle.
These two bodies caught me totally out in left field. I can't believe my judgment was so far off on this. I assumed Canon ergos to follow the R5 and R6. I didn't expect some nutbar to take over design.
The 18-45? that's just a hot mess. Nice and small and maybe it's just the same as the 15-45 but they stopped at 18 because QA is just so difficult from 15 to 18? but a 29mm to 75mm certainly isn't a nice range I want in the year 2022, not when it's competition is at 24mm. The 15-45mm once you got a good one on the EF-M was a really nice lens. Seeing that range now limited to a cerca 1990 zoom range? ick.
The 18-150 on the EF-M I loved. So I'm really interested in how this lens does. The magnification sounds fantastic. it's literally a "do-all" travel lens. if it's good - it's the lens that will sell an RF APS-C camera for me. But until there's an RF-S 11-22mm I'm certainly not moving from EOS-M
EOS-M killers? doubtful. I think they made them "just" enough different to ensure that they are not.
I'll be writing up an article on CN about this - I'll have to ask CR if he still wants me posting in here
at least there's something to talk about on Canon Land. It's certainly been slow.
oh and vote please (Shameless plug)
As a 30+ year Canon user - I hate the R7. There's absolutely no way i wanted that dial repositioned. Who thought of that idea? Even the muscle memory switching between R10 and R7 would be a pain in the ass. I'm not sure what the wisdom there was. Why didn't they just shove in the 1 series joystick and leave the rest of the ergos "canon standard" This reminds me of the failed MFbar on the EOS R.
The R7 and R10 look good specwise- but I would have rather had clear matching ergonomics like we "almost" had with the EF lineup with the 5D/6D and 7D/90D. They aren't "new" sensors. maybe manufacturered on a different design rule, but essentially they are the same. DIGIC X has more of an impact on how much data the camera can handle.
These two bodies caught me totally out in left field. I can't believe my judgment was so far off on this. I assumed Canon ergos to follow the R5 and R6. I didn't expect some nutbar to take over design.
The 18-45? that's just a hot mess. Nice and small and maybe it's just the same as the 15-45 but they stopped at 18 because QA is just so difficult from 15 to 18? but a 29mm to 75mm certainly isn't a nice range I want in the year 2022, not when it's competition is at 24mm. The 15-45mm once you got a good one on the EF-M was a really nice lens. Seeing that range now limited to a cerca 1990 zoom range? ick.
The 18-150 on the EF-M I loved. So I'm really interested in how this lens does. The magnification sounds fantastic. it's literally a "do-all" travel lens. if it's good - it's the lens that will sell an RF APS-C camera for me. But until there's an RF-S 11-22mm I'm certainly not moving from EOS-M
EOS-M killers? doubtful. I think they made them "just" enough different to ensure that they are not.
I'll be writing up an article on CN about this - I'll have to ask CR if he still wants me posting in here
at least there's something to talk about on Canon Land. It's certainly been slow.oh and vote please
(Shameless plug)
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I have noticed that some places in Australia have the R10 for cheaper then the 90D, and the R10 comes with either an EF-RF adapter or a spare battery by redemption from Canon. The kit lens is the RF-S 18-150mm. My M5 and EF-M 18-150mm is great for portability and people don't assume I'm a "professional photographer"
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The 18-45 seems to be a limited EF-M 15-45mm. No Idea why canon starts which such a limited Lense. The 15mm are real usefull at EOS M. If there are Image quality problems with this lense, they should the job right an build a new one. Instead of 18-45mm, Nikon offers a 16-50mm, and this lense ist even smaller!
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As a 55+ year Canon user - I reckon you youngsters are too set in your ways and don't have the mental adaptability of us more forward looking and modern seniors!
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canon didn't really settle on an ergonomic final path until the death throes of FD though. which was the point.
since the start of EF Digital the control wheel on all Canon cameras have all been roughly in the same position.
Also people have more than one camera body. Consistency "used" to be a relatively good point about Canon - however they have never gone so far out to left field as this camera.
Switching from an R7 to an R5 in the field will not be as easy as switching from a 7D to a 5D. It should be.
But good on you for thinking I'm a youngster.
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One minor annoyance with Mirrorless compared to the DSLR for me is with the M5 I keep on bumping the buttons and turning on the EVF or LCD by accident, I've got into the habit of turning the switch off with the M5 to avoid wasting the battery, with the DSLR this didn't matter so I just leave it on through the whole shoot.
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Agreed it's the easiest thing to flit from one body to the next if they have the same ergonomics and menus, and I've done that with Canon over the years. Did people cry foul when Canon ditched the Mode Dial on the R5 for a function button because they had lost the old muscle memory? Like many here, I alternate between an R6 and R5 and have muscle memory for both. Lots of us have more than one system and manage. If you don't change you don't evolve and eventually join the dinosaurs.canon didn't really settle on an ergonomic final path until the death throes of FD though. which was the point.
since the start of EF Digital the control wheel on all Canon cameras have all been roughly in the same position.
Also people have more than one camera body. Consistency "used" to be a relatively good point about Canon - however they have never gone so far out to left field as this camera.
Switching from an R7 to an R5 in the field will not be as easy as switching from a 7D to a 5D. It should be.
But good on you for thinking I'm a youngster.
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As a 40 year Canon user, I’m pretty excited about the R7. Ergonomics always change and we humans are pretty good at adapting to new ways of doing things.
I can live with the compromises Canon made for the price point. It would be a lot harder for me to justify buying a body that did everything everybody has been hoping for but cost $2500–3000.
This is actually a very competitive offering from Canon. Compare it to the Sony a6600 or Fuji X-T4. It’s in the same price range but beats them both on features.
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I was quite disappointed when I saw the final specs of the R7. Odd ergonomics, low res viewfinder and no BSI-sensor were downers ...
But after reading and watching the first reviews I changed my mind. There will never be the perfect camera. I think Canon did a very good job making a good compromise between 90D and 7D. As a ambitious hobbyist and regarding the surprisingly(!) low price I am more than happy!
But after reading and watching the first reviews I changed my mind. There will never be the perfect camera. I think Canon did a very good job making a good compromise between 90D and 7D. As a ambitious hobbyist and regarding the surprisingly(!) low price I am more than happy!
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