R1 and flash behaviour.

[mmmm]

What can I do about the fact that whenever I add a flash or a flash trigger (godox system) to the hot shoe, the exposure simulation gets disabled and (what I assume is) the ovf simulation is engaged?

It’s nice to be able to measure the ambient light using the exp sim.

The only solution I have found is to turn off the flash or trigger, set the exposure, then turn on the flash or trigger.

It’s fine and works, but it’s not elegant.

Now, I’m used to shooting with my 5d’s, so from that respect nothing has changed. But exp sim is a big quality of life upgrade with my leap to mirrorless.

Not a deal breaker, but would be interesting to know what others do.

Cheers!

 

[mmmm]

What can I do about the fact that whenever I add a flash or a flash trigger (godox system) to the hot shoe, the exposure simulation gets disabled and (what I assume is) the ovf simulation is engaged?

It’s nice to be able to measure the ambient light using the exp sim.

The only solution I have found is to turn off the flash or trigger, set the exposure, then turn on the flash or trigger.

It’s fine and works, but it’s not elegant.

Now, I’m used to shooting with my 5d’s, so from that respect nothing has changed. But exp sim is a big quality of life upgrade with my leap to mirrorless.

Not a deal breaker, but would be interesting to know what others do.

Cheers!

To anyone looking at this, a viable solution seems to be: focus, press exp comp button on the top right, adjust exposure, shoot. The Exposure Compensation button temporarily re-enables exposure simulation.
Alt method (with default button layout) is hit the AF select on back far right and then set.

 

[docsmith]

I just tried to replicate what you are seeing.

My Exposure Simulation was not disabled when I added a Flash (Canon 430 EXIII or 600EX-RT) or trigger (ST-E3-RT).

Have you tried a Canon product?

 

[mmmm]

I just tried to replicate what you are seeing.

My Exposure Simulation was not disabled when I added a Flash (Canon 430 EXIII or 600EX-RT) or trigger (ST-E3-RT).

Have you tried a Canon product?

I don’t own any, I am fully invested in the godox system.

Edit-
I did hear about an adapter once a while ago, maybe that caters for the new hot shoe and 3rd party systems.

I didn’t look into it more once I got the new body and realised everything worked (except the exposure simulation obviously). As I said though I have never had that before so I’m not that bothered. Even less now I have found a work around.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Arguably a moot point if @mmmm has a satisfactory workaround, but I suspect there’s some terminology confusion here.

Exposure Simulation is where the EVF simulates the exposure based on the shutter/aperture/ISO settings. As an example, if you set something like 1/100 s, f/11, ISO 400 in a dark room then with Exp Sim, the viewfinder (or LCD) is nearly black.

When you attach a flash and power it on, Exp Sim is overridden (though the setting itself doesn’t change) and the viewfinder shows a scene that appears brightly lit with the example above. Changing the exposure settings does not affect the VF image, as it normally does with no flash attached. I suspect that’s what @mmmm means by “exposure simulation gets disabled and (what I assume is) the ovf simulation is engaged“.

In that situation, you can’t judge what the exposure would look like without the flash and adjust the shutter speed to expose for the background based on the view through the EVF. However, @mmmm note that is you have the metering gauge displayed on the right side of the VF, that shows the effects on the metered exposure without flash.

 

[mmmm]

I suspect that’s what @mmmm means by “exposure simulation gets disabled and (what I assume is) the ovf simulation is engaged“.

I assume that’s what’s happening. Instead of the EVF showing exposure simulation it shows a scene identical to what is shown when you change the view to OVF Simulation.

However, @mmmm note that is you have the metering gauge displayed on the right side of the VF, that shows the effects on the metered exposure without flash.

Maybe there is a typo here. If you’re suggesting that I should do that (use the metering gauge to see the exposure) then yes, thanks. That’s what I normally do. And have always done as that’s always been the only option (coming from DSLR’s).

If you’re saying that that’s what I suggested, then no that’s not what I mean. If you press the exposure compensation button on the top of the camera (+- button) with a flash or a trigger attached, then the EVF reverts back to exposure simulation temporarily - until you meter again.

Note: Just quickly testing I haven’t been in the field with this yet.

 

[docsmith]

Ahhh...makes sense. Per usual I was being linear....C'est la vie.

How about assigning a button to rapidly turn your flash on or off? I just tested by assigning the button on my lens (RF 24-105 f/2.8) on my R1 and it works. Flash on, and exposure simulation meters the ambient light plus the light the that will be provided by the flash. Flash off, the scene goes dark as it is now only metering the ambient scene.

Flash Firing, second from the bottom, if you want a list of buttons that can be programmed, but it is available on most buttons.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I assume that’s what’s happening. Instead of the EVF showing exposure simulation it shows a scene identical to what is shown when you change the view to OVF Simulation.

Makes sense, though technically what it’s doing is temporarily disabling Exp Sim. Turning on OVF Sim does just that (the settings for Exp Sim are disabled when you do that). Similarly, I use the blackout free display setting that forces Exp Sim + DoF Preview (which would be my preferred settings anyway) and disables OVF Sim. Lots of mutual exclusivity in the EVF settings.

FYI, my post was more intended to point out that when @docsmith says Exp Sim is not disabled with a Canon flash, that’s not true for me. It doesn’t matter whether it’s an old shoe style (600EX-RT) or MFS-type (EL-5), Exp Sim is functionally disabled (even though the setting in the menus doesn’t change).

Maybe there is a typo here. If you’re suggesting that I should do that (use the metering gauge to see the exposure) then yes, thanks. That’s what I normally do. And have always done as that’s always been the only option (coming from DSLR’s).

If you’re saying that that’s what I suggested, then no that’s not what I mean. If you press the exposure compensation button on the top of the camera (+- button) with a flash or a trigger attached, then the EVF reverts back to exposure simulation temporarily - until you meter again.

Note: Just quickly testing I haven’t been in the field with this yet.

Just pointing it out. Though for me, your workaround doesn’t work. When I press the EC button, the scene brightness doesn’t change. Not sure if that’s because I’m using Canon flashes, or because my button layout is pretty heavily customized.

For me, it doesn’t matter all that often. My typical flash use is 4-5 flashes (± a monolight) with a backdrop where my settings are intended to eliminate the ambient contribution, so having the scene automatically brighten works for me.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Ahhh...makes sense. Per usual I was being linear....C'est la vie.

How about assigning a button to rapidly turn your flash on or off?

Seems like the EC button is working for @mmmm though not for me. But that’s a good idea. For me, when I’m using fill flash and want to see the ambient scene with Exp Sim, I turn on silent shooting. That precludes using a flash, and I have it mapped to the still/video switch (since I don’t shoot video on my ILCs).

 

[docsmith]

FYI, my post was more intended to point out that when @docsmith says Exp Sim is not disabled with a Canon flash, that’s not true for me. It doesn’t matter whether it’s an old shoe style (600EX-RT) or MFS-type (EL-5), Exp Sim is functionally disabled (even though the setting in the menus doesn’t change).

So, I played with this before my first post.

First, I should start, with Exp Sim, I am assuming the purpose and what we are describing is that what you see in the EVF/Back LCD is approximately what your final image will look like....and just to check this, yes, that is what Canon says as well:


Perhaps a technicality, but to me, adding a Flash does not "disable" the Exp Sim. With Flash On the Exp Sim appears to me to be taking into account the ambient light plus whatever light will be added by the Flash. With Flash Off, the Exp Sim is only accounting for the scene with ambient light.

At least in my mind, with Flash On, the Exp Sim is not disabled, it is working perfectly. As I said, before my first post, I tested this and the Exp Sim with flash on did approximate what I saw in the pictures I took, even with bouncing light from different directions. Obviously, it could not simulate directional light, but the overall exposure was very similar.

If I understand mmmm correctly, the goal is to figure out a way to check ambient light quickly while working with a flash. Having a button that turns the flash on/off should do that.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Perhaps a technicality, but to me, adding a Flash does not "disable" the Exp Sim. With Flash On the Exp Sim appears to me to be taking into account the ambient light plus whatever light will be added by the Flash.

I had that thought, so last night I set the flash exposure manually using the camera menu to the minimum 1/1024 power setting, which was far from sufficient to provide a brightly lit scene with my settings (a 20 second shutter speed was needed to get the scene meter to zero). But the scene in the EVF/LCD was nice and bright.

So if Canon really is trying to take into account the light added by the flash, they’re failing.

 

[docsmith]

Fair enough. I am getting good results with ETTL (good reproduction of final image and what I see via the EVF), but I just switched the flash to manual mode and am seeing the same thing. Exp Sim is not replicating the final image with the older flashes I use with the flash in manual mode.

On a side note, I am getting pretty good at popping off the hot shoe cap.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Exp Sim is not replicating the final image with the older flashes I use with the flash in manual mode.

Nor with the EL-5.

On a side note, I am getting pretty good at popping off the hot shoe cap.

I feel like mine has loosened up quite a bit. I can remove it one-handed. In fact, I don’t even need to press the ‘lock’ button. Not sure that’s a good thing?!? The little black pin on the underside of the cover is undamaged, but it’s not really locking.

 

[mmmm]

I only use manual flash, so I’m not sure if it adds or takes anything to or from this conversation. I highly doubt canon is trying to guess what the scene may be - it would be next to impossible except with ettl, and even then it would be a bizarre thing to attempt.

 

[OldDudePhotog]

On a side note, I am getting pretty good at popping off the hot shoe cap.

I'm still struggling with this, great idea but mine seems to be a complete pain in the a** to get off. But the upside is that it doesn't fall off on its own like my R3 did. I bought one of the locking caps and put it on my R3, works great till you try to take it off....

 

[docsmith]

I only use manual flash, so I’m not sure if it adds or takes anything to or from this conversation. I highly doubt canon is trying to guess what the scene may be - it would be next to impossible except with ettl, and even then it would be a bizarre thing to attempt.

I think assigning the Flash on/off button may still work for you, manual or ETTL, it is a quick way to turn the flash off at which time the Exp Sim to evaluate your scene without the flash.

I'm still struggling with this, great idea but mine seems to be a complete pain in the a** to get off. But the upside is that it doesn't fall off on its own like my R3 did. I bought one of the locking caps and put it on my R3, works great till you try to take it off....

I almost could not get it off the first time I tried. As Neuro said, it might need to be broken in. Now, I press down on the button with my thumb and use my index and middle fingers to simultaneously pull back and up slightly.

That is working for me. When I slide it back it, I am also having to press the button to make sure it is locked on.

 

[mmmm]

I think assigning the Flash on/off button may still work for you, manual or ETTL, it is a quick way to turn the flash off at which time the Exp Sim to evaluate your scene without the flash.

Yep it does work and it’s an excellent work around thanks.

 

[OldDudePhotog]

Slightly off-topic, I've been messing with my new Godox SK400II flash(es) and an XproC trigger. I cannot get the trigger to fire the flash on ETTL mode, except for one time I went through various menus and it started working. I turned the trigger off and back on and now nothing again. Anyone have this trigger and get it to work?

Edit: I'm using it on my R1, have not tried any of my other cameras.

Edit #2: It works great in manual mode, just not in ETTL.

 

[mmmm]

Slightly off-topic, I've been messing with my new Godox SK400II flash(es) and an XproC trigger. I cannot get the trigger to fire the flash on ETTL mode, except for one time I went through various menus and it started working. I turned the trigger off and back on and now nothing again. Anyone have this trigger and get it to work?

Edit: I'm using it on my R1, have not tried any of my other cameras.

Edit #2: It works great in manual mode, just not in ETTL.

I use godox, but I don’t have either that flash or that trigger. I don’t use ettl but I just did a quick test using it with a V1 and it seems to work both on camera and off with an X2 trigger. A200 pro’s also work.

I haven’t yet used any external lighting in the field, and I have to say I also had to fiddle with unknown things in random orders to get it to work. But now it seems stable. I have found that’s the story with 3rd party off camera flash systems since forever though.

Again, I exclusively use manual and I think it’s a generally easier thing to troubleshoot as the only thing the camera needs to is fire the thing.

Conclusion: fiddle around more!

 

[OldDudePhotog]

If

I use godox, but I don’t have either that flash or that trigger. I don’t use ettl but I just did a quick test using it with a V1 and it seems to work both on camera and off with an X2 trigger. A200 pro’s also work.

I haven’t yet used any external lighting in the field, and I have to say I also had to fiddle with unknown things in random orders to get it to work. But now it seems stable. I have found that’s the story with 3rd party off camera flash systems since forever though.

Again, I exclusively use manual and I think it’s a generally easier thing to troubleshoot as the only thing the camera needs to is fire the thing.

Conclusion: fiddle around more!

If I fiddle any more, I am afraid one of the cities near me may burn.