Official announcement of the Canon EOS R1 is now expected in July

[amorse]

I think this is right.
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All in fun: let me 'correct'/add a bit to this part:

Market segmentation is part of every camera manufacturer’s plan to be fair advantageous to its stockholders(!).
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...and this sentence can be sweetened a bit as well (in terms of context):

"Crippling the R5 to make the r1 sell would only give advantages to their competitors."

Some who post here seem to assume that Canon never makes mistakes. I do not agree with that assertion.

Great thread!

Ha! It seems I forgot a comma between "plan" and "to be fair"

But yes, I always get a bit of a chuckle when there seems to be an expectation that any of these businesses are going to offer every feature they can for as cheap as they can.

 

[josephandrews222]

I'm wondering about what differentiates the two products? Size, ruggedness, resolution, battery life, and card slots (I doubt that the R5II will have dual CFE slots) will be different but what else? Will the R1 have better (more accurate, quicker, consistent etc.) AF? Will the R511 not have the rumored stacked sensor? Excuse me for wondering, but if Canon is announcing them at the same time, it will want to give photographers real reasons to opt for an $8k camera rather than a $4k one. I fear there may be some unnecessary crippling of the R5II in order to accomplish this differentiation.

ruggedness...

This is a very good point for those who earn their living in photography...and for the rest of us, too!

Since the early days of the 2020 pandemic, my wife has been offering a selection of her yoga classes online...via Zoom.

Just about every Monday and Wednesday, from 9-11am (in fact commencing in ten minutes), she is up-and-running, from home, with a modern desktop computer attached/connected to the internet, a monitor, a big-screen TV, a professional microphone, and a Canon 40D camera that I purchased at about the time that the 50D was released (late 2008).

The free Canon webcam software works well enough, as does the 15 year old 40D and its sensor...which for yoga purposes has served its function for 4 hours per week, about 40 weeks per year, for 4+ years now.

That same 40D was my primary body for years and years....and supplied thousands of images.

Rugged enough...I'd say! I never take ruggedness for granted...in any consumer product. Kudos to Canon.

 

[mpmark]

I'm wondering about what differentiates the two products? Size, ruggedness, resolution, battery life, and card slots (I doubt that the R5II will have dual CFE slots) will be different but what else? Will the R1 have better (more accurate, quicker, consistent etc.) AF? Will the R511 not have the rumored stacked sensor? Excuse me for wondering, but if Canon is announcing them at the same time, it will want to give photographers real reasons to opt for an $8k camera rather than a $4k one. I fear there may be some unnecessary crippling of the R5II in order to accomplish this differentiation.

I'm sorry but the 5 series and the 1 series have never and will never be competing against each other, they are marketed for different people. If you can't see that I'm not sure how else to explain it. completely different build, speed and resolution, not to mention purposes of use. There is no "crippling" to make one just cheaper than the other, that's nonsense and misunderstanding of how these cameras are designed.

 

[koenkooi]

This is all very surprising and I thought for sure that Canon would have had the R1 ready to go for the 'lympics, instead they seem like they're tripping over their 'lympics. I just read over the specs of the new N Z6iii (and told eventually S a7SIV). Pretty impressive for a little body though it will be interesting to see how it performs.

The people that Canon wants to be using an R1 during the Olympics or the soccer thing, will be handed an R1.

 

[P-visie]

This was his former camera. He has always been using the best equipment, no matter what it cost.
But after a most critical and demanding test series, he found out that the EOS R100 was neven better. Incredible, isn't it?

Yes, and Harry does not need a touchscreen because he operates the controls of the R100 by mind-control!

 

[mimbu]

Meanwhile I read NR comment section claiming Z6iii will kill R6iii and makes Canon DOOOOOMMMED ™

The Z6iii looks pretty decent, but Nikon needs to climb back up from 12% market share or whatever tiny number they currently have. It's more about survival of Nikon's camera business than it is about killing anyone else.

 

[neuroanatomist]

This is all very surprising and I thought for sure that Canon would have had the R1 ready to go for the 'lympics, instead they seem like they're tripping over their 'lympics.

What makes you think it won't be ready for the Olympics? Do you think photojournalists covering the Olympics are waiting for the announcement so they can preorder their R1's from B&H and hope Canon ships them in time? LOL. Did you miss the fact that the R1 was being used last month at the Monaco GP? I guess you think Canon was tripping over their race car tires or something equally asinine.

 

[frankchn]

What makes you think it won't be ready for the Olympics? Do you think photojournalists covering the Olympics are waiting for the announcement so they can preorder their R1's from B&H and hope Canon ships them in time? LOL. Did you miss the fact that the R1 was being used last month at the Monaco GP? I guess you think Canon was tripping over their race car tires or something equally asinine.

Canon has historically launched the 1DX series of cameras months before the Olympics (March 2012 for the 1DX, February 2016 for the 1DX2, January 2020 for the 1DX3), and delivered the first units to retail customers about a month later.

They have kept up the same cadence for 3 successive generations of flagships now, and Canon is a creature of habit, so my bet is that they originally planned for the R1 to be launched at around same time (Q1 2024) relative to the Olympics as their last 3 flagships. The fact that they haven't tells me there are likely some delays and some bits of the camera are not quite ready for paying customers.

This would also explain why there is a big gap between the 24-105Z/200-800 launch last November and the R1 development announcement in May -- historically the largest gap Canon has gone without announcing anything at all. They might have been planning to fill some of that with R1 related announcements, but things got pushed back.

Would the R1 be used at Olympics? Most definitely. Would it be running final hardware or firmware and performing to spec? Who knows, everyone who used it is under NDA.

Giving photographers new cameras to test at the Olympics is well and good, but ultimately Canon is a business, and I bet they would rather sell the cameras earlier than later if they could.

 

[frankchn]

Some who post here seem to assume that Canon never makes mistakes. I do not agree with that assertion.

Yeah, Canon definitely makes mistakes.

They most recently screwed up production and inventory management in the Imaging division in Q4 2023 and Q1 2024 and ended up with too much inventory in channel, and had to run sales promotions to get rid of the excess inventory, resulting in a sales and profit drop. From their most recent investor presentation transcript:

As for Imaging, starting with cameras, at the end of the fourth quarter selling season, the amount of market inventory for some products was heavy. To optimize market inventory, we reduced unit shipments and invested in sales promotions to stimulate sell-out through mass retailers, which led to lower revenue. For network cameras as well, inventory adjustment of our sales partners which started in the fourth quarter of last year continued in the first quarter, resulting in an overall decrease in Imaging sales of 8.8%.

 

[Pixel]

Just as I said. Canon wants it announced BEFORE the Olympics to take advantage of the "chatter" from the games. If it wasn't announced they wouldn't get any of the free marketing that the influencers would give them during the games which is what their flagship revolves around time-wise.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Canon has historically launched the 1DX series of cameras months before the Olympics (March 2012 for the 1DX, February 2016 for the 1DX2, January 2020 for the 1DX3), and delivered the first units to retail customers about a month later.

I can’t speak for the MkII or MkIII, but I was among the first to preorder a 1D X in March, 2012 and mine didn’t ship from B&H until mid-July. Looking back at my emails, Bryan at TDP got his production version at the same time. Not exactly ‘about a month’.

Yes, the R1 announcement is later in the year than prior 1-series bodies. I doubt that means they’ll sell fewer of them (the trollish suggestion that people will buy the Z6 III instead notwithstanding).

 

[Billybob]

I'm sorry but the 5 series and the 1 series have never and will never be competing against each other, they are marketed for different people. If you can't see that I'm not sure how else to explain it. completely different build, speed and resolution, not to mention purposes of use. There is no "crippling" to make one just cheaper than the other, that's nonsense and misunderstanding of how these cameras are designed.

Perhaps, but there is no way to perfectly segment markets. I've seen cellphone shots win competitions over "pro-level" full-frame cameras, so there is always overlap.

...and this sentence can be sweetened a bit as well (in terms of context):

"Crippling the R5 to make the r1 sell would only give advantages to their competitors."

Some who post here seem to assume that Canon never makes mistakes. I do not agree with that assertion.

Great thread!

I too am skeptical that Canon never makes mistakes.

In 2007-08, Nikon released the professional-grade D3 and less than a year later the D700. The D700 (akin to Canon's 5D series) was nearly as full featured as the D3 differentiated only by ruggedness, battery life and, perhaps, shooting speed. Professional Nikon shooters flocked to the D700 in droves resulting in a tremendous drop in D3 sales among wedding, studio, and wildlife photographers who didn't see the added benefits of the "flagship" D3.

Sure, if I'm a photojournalist who regularly shoots in in environmentally problematic locations, I'll get the flagship body. But in circumstances where I don't need the ruggedness (as some have mentioned, if consumer-level bodies are sufficiently reliable for most photographers), extra battery life, and lower resolution to meet deadlines (I'm not sure if shooting a 45MP 5D in jpeg mode is a problem for deadline-sensitive photographers; heck, the Nikon's Z9 is 45MP), then why not go with a $4K body instead of the $8k flagship?

 

[Billybob]

"Crippling the R5 to make the r1 sell would only give advantages to their competitors."

And not much of an advantage due to switching costs. A Canon user isn't going to switch to Nikon or Sony just because the R5II is incrementally inferior to the Nikon Z8 or the Sony (I'm not sure what the direct competitor to the R5 is for Sony; is it the A7RV with it's low burst rate or the A9III with its low resolution?)? The Canon user will either stick with their current body or buy the R5II if it has enough improvements over current bodies. So, as an R5 user, I'm concerned that segmentation needs may make the R5II's "improvements" insufficiently beneficial to me to induce me to upgrade.

 

[Richard CN]

Just as I said. Canon wants it announced BEFORE the Olympics to take advantage of the "chatter" from the games. If it wasn't announced they wouldn't get any of the free marketing that the influencers would give them during the games which is what their flagship revolves around time-wise.

The people who use these R1 cameras at major sporting events like the Olympics aren't listening to influencers or influencers - they are the working pros on the sidelines. This isn't Canon's first rodeo doing a camera or a lens in development at the games. I'm sure they can manage it quite fine.

 

[frankchn]

I can’t speak for the MkII or MkIII, but I was among the first to preorder a 1D X in March, 2012 and mine didn’t ship from B&H until mid-July. Looking back at my emails, Bryan at TDP got his production version at the same time. Not exactly ‘about a month’.

I wasn't on the 1DX train till the following year, so no idea about that delay, thanks for the clarification. Sounds like it still made it into your hands before London 2012's opening ceremony on July 27th 2012 though.

 

[koenkooi]

[…] Some who post here seem to assume that Canon never makes mistakes. I do not agree with that assertion.[…]

I view it as Canon can and does mistakes, but despite that, they have remained the market leader for a loooong time.

That might change, but so far their mistakes haven’t cost them the top position.

 

[josephandrews222]

The people who use these R1 cameras at major sporting events like the Olympics aren't listening to influencers or influencers - they are the working pros on the sidelines. This isn't Canon's first rodeo doing a camera or a lens in development at the games. I'm sure they can manage it quite fine.

RIchard, a great deal of the success of CR (and websites like it) is that old guys with disposable income allocate significant resources (and time) to owning the same equipment that the 'working pros on the sidelines' do.

Many of these guys wouldn't know an internet influencer from...I don't know...a 'Jake from State Farm' commercial.

But that doesn't mean that the working pros aren't 'influencers'. They just aren't internet influencers.

Once again: a great thread.

 

[amorse]

Sure, if I'm a photojournalist who regularly shoots in in environmentally problematic locations, I'll get the flagship body. But in circumstances where I don't need the ruggedness (as some have mentioned, if consumer-level bodies are sufficiently reliable for most photographers), extra battery life, and lower resolution to meet deadlines (I'm not sure if shooting a 45MP 5D in jpeg mode is a problem for deadline-sensitive photographers; heck, the Nikon's Z9 is 45MP), then why not go with a $4K body instead of the $8k flagship?

Honestly, for photographers in the situation you describe, I wouldn't be shocked to see them pick up the cheaper body because their needs don't require the higher-end body. Based on the note in the article that the R5 out sells the R3 by 30-1 at most retailers (if that's true), then choosing the cheaper body which meets a photographer's needs is exactly what people do. I don't think that's a bad thing, but most manufacturers seem to try to have a product for every price point to cover different needs within reason. I would have to assume there is a notable pool of buyers that can afford an R5 but not an R1, so trying to push most R5 buyers to get an R1 by holding back the R5 would be trying to squeeze blood from a stone.

Honestly I think the same argument can be made in comparing the R5 and R6 series as well though. There's a reasonable price gap between the bodies, and if you don't need the resolution of the R5, then wouldn't the R6 be a pretty compelling offer by comparison? I think the point is if you really need that added feature, people will generally pay for it because there isn't really a better alternative. It's all just market segmentation - I have to assume Canon wants peoples' money, and recognizing that everyone has different amounts of money, they likely want to be sure they have a product that matches the budget of any potential buyer. Obviously the number of people with a camera budget sufficient for a $6500 may be fewer than those who can only a $3900 camera, or even a $2500 camera.

 

[Richard CN]

RIchard, a great deal of the success of CR (and websites like it) is that old guys with disposable income allocate significant resources (and time) to owning the same equipment that the 'working pros on the sidelines' do.

Many of these guys wouldn't know an internet influencer from...I don't know...a 'Jake from State Farm' commercial.

But that doesn't mean that the working pros aren't 'influencers'. They just aren't internet influencers.

Once again: a great thread.

well, true. but to be honest - those with such aspirations would get it as soon as they could anyways.

But my point and maybe i missed it, was that Canon doesn't have to market it to the people at the olympics, and they will market it to the rest of us during the Olympics anyways regardless of announcement or availability. these things show up on photos, press announcements, the olympic service center, etc.

 

[CanonGrunt]

I noticed yesterday that B&H and Adorama added SKU / Barcode numbers to their landing page for the R1 recently. I imagine it’s early July that we hear something solid or the announcement itself for it.


Also, anyone have an 1D X MK III they want to sell cheap?