Are two cameras going to replace the Canon EOS R5? [CR]

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#121
Ph0t0 said:
Well, I guess if you are only interested in creating images with perception of detail, then a lower MP sensor and some AI will suffice.

If you want images that display actual details (not the details that AI thinks should have been there) then you will allways need good glass and sensors with higher MP count.

I mean... If you have a photo of a photo of a car in a distance and the number plate is just a blur of a couple of grey pixels, and you want to know the real number, then you need a telephoto or a better sensor.
If you don't care about the real number... Then AI can allways just create a random number and paint it on the plate and it will look great.
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In theory I would agree with you, but I've been using Topaz software for some time now, and the AI generated detail is extremely convincing, e.g. it reveals the detail of the microscopic scales in butterfly wings very accurately. It's amazingly good at generating natural looking detail.

As for generating detail from blurred car number plates, there was recently a test conducted by dpreview, where commercial AI software produced accurate and legible alphanumerics from blurred and illegible origin images.
 
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#122
unfocused said:
Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. This becomes a matter of personal ethics and responsibility. The accepted standard for nature, wildlife, sports, journalism, etc., is not to manipulate an image beyond what was possible using traditional darkroom techniques.

It’s a matter of personal choice, but for me I have no interest in taking and displaying pictures that don’t reflect my own abilities. I’m in this to push my own limits. I want to have the personal satisfaction of being able to say I was there and this is what I saw.

I may be naïve but I think that will always be the appeal of photography for many people.
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"traditional darkroom techniques" - are you talking about Photoshop? You'll find very few published images that haven't been modified in PS to an extent that many would claim to be unacceptable, e.g. cloning to remove unwanted background detail. It's up to the individual to decide what is acceptable to them. We are all in this to push our own limits, but if you are using "traditional darkroom techniques" then you are already distorting reality to match your own creativity.

FWIW, my post processing is mostly limited to cloning over ugly polygonal bokeh highlights, cropping, and adjustments to highlights, shadows and colour balance, all with the intention of reproducing what my eyes saw. But I have no hesitation whatsoever in using DeNoise AI to remove noise, and if Gigapixel can produce results that can't be distinguished from pixel-shift hi-res, I'd have no hesitation in using that either.
 
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#125
Scottboarding said:
This would make sense to me. If the high megapixel camera is 70+ MP that would probably be off putting to a lot of people and probably limit burst speeds or the buffer. Bumping the R5ii to 50mp with current/similar burst rates and then offering a separate camera with much higher resolution but slower burst rates would give a larger group of people what they want vs only one of those two options.
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A FF sensor with the same pixel density like the R7 would make whopping 85 MP. With a stacked sensor like in the R3 read-out times would be fast enough to achieve a decent performance in terms of burst rates, I guess. Action shooters with such a camera may have to train fast card changing burst rates, though ;)
 
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#126
usern4cr said:
I'll probably be happy with any upgrade to the R5. Just bring one out, please!

If they happen to have bring out 2 identical versions with one at 45MP and another at say 90MP, then I'd probably opt for the 45MP version. If it was 45MP and 60MP then I might opt for the 60MP one.
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Yup, same here.
I'm saving now and should be ready to buy a R5 ii easily by first quarter of 2024.
I just bought some pricey Spike brewing equipment, so saving now for the camera....I'd like an upgraded R5. I already have a GFX100, so I have the high megapixel area covered, I need the mirrorless all arounder that the R5 presents.
That and I've been investing lately in some good EF mount anamorphic FF lenses that I can't use on the old 5D3 mirror slapper and I want to put it on the R5 with the adapters for my video play.
I'm also anxious to adapt all my vintage lenses I've been collecting up these past years on the mirrorless R5ii.....

So, I'm like you....release the darned thing ASAP!!
:D

That's my $0.02,

cayenne
 
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#130
unfocused said:
As an aside I just want to say that in my opinion CRaw is one of the best innovations ever. Virtually all reviewers have said, and my own experience reflects, that there is little to no penalty for using compressed raw. As sensor resolution keeps moving up, I expect it will become the default choice for most users and I also expect Canon will continue to improve on it, making further compression possible.
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Hi Unfocused. It may be good, but full RAW is here to stay... Studio shooters, landscape shooters all want it..
 
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#131
David - Sydney said:
True but Canon is keeping the R with 30mp in the lineup. Not sure why but it does meet the mp mid-point between 24.3mp and 45mp and is cheaper again. Current B&H pricing:
R6ii USD2.5k
R6 USD2k
R USD1.4k
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The R is a great camera if you don't shoot fast moving wild-life and/ or sports.
I don't believe Canon considers it to "be within the line-up", but it is definitely a great value for money at the moment.
 
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#133
EOS 4 Life said:
That is very possible.
However, the R7 is already very slow.
I can't imagine how slow a full-frame version would be.
On the other hand, the a7R V is also very slow.
If it is intended to be used for landscapes and product photography then that might not matter.
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Well, even for landscapes, I doubt many non professionals will NEED the 80 MP.
But, for heavy cropping, a tempting option.
 
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#135
Fischer said:
Is this a serious comment? 5DII 21 MPIX - 5DIII 22 MPIX - did any camera in any series from any manufacturer have a lower resolution increase?
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well... technically, there have been a few 0 increases (D800 -> D810, A7Rii -> A7RIII, 1D X II -> 1D X III, D5 -> D6) and even rare decreases (1Ds III 21mp -> 1D X 18mp)
Just nitpicking :D I do agree with your post
 
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#136
neuroanatomist said:
Oops, should have checked. In that case, 6DII to R6 dropped. Thanks!
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I assumed you meant the RP though?
Just nitpicking, and it changes nothing, but for me the decrease is RP -> R8... the R6II follows the R6 and that was a (modest) increase. If we compare cameras in different classes / families then everything goes
 
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#137
EOS 4 Life said:
That is an easy theory to test now that the R5 has a 400 MP JPEG mode.
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That's correct. That's why I did that testing myself, as in my posts (see #231 and several before & after) at:
https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/it’s-time-to-fill-those-memory-cards-canon-releases-firmware-v1-8-1-for-the-canon-eos-r5-400mp-stills-are-now-possible.42213/page-12#post-957978

I found the R5 pixel shift roughly *doubled* the resolution (for both horizontal & vertical) of the R5 in my tests, and the users here can view the test charts and decide what increase they think they see from it. (Note: this is a resolution test only and not an IQ test) That tells me that a sensor with 4x the total pixels should be able to resolve images with a good lens. And I'll repeat what I said to Canon (if they ever look at it): "Huzzah!"
 
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#138
EOS 4 Life said:
Cameras with digital backs can do precisely that.
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They do, but there are various issues...
I have experience with mine (H5X + IQ1 80) and I love it, but keep in mind most digital backs are old-ish and:
  • integration camera / back is limited
  • they are simpler with no IBIS and less moving parts
  • tolerances are an issue: AF is not on the sensor and by dismounting and mounting (i.e. to clean the sensor or to switch to a different back) you may introduce front- or back-focusing type of issues (it takes very little)
  • the backs are super-expensive unless you go for really old ones, which generally have resolution and performances that are sub par for modern standards
  • these rigs cannot be as solid and robust as integrated cameras
Years ago, if you wanted 50+ mp you did not have many options, the world is different now
 
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#140
riker said:
Nice one. :) Kind of a troll comment tho. 5DS was a side model, not in the direct line of the 5 series. Even if it was, you'd be wrong coz it would had been followed by the 30MP 5d4, not the R5. 5DS is a branch of 5d3 with no predecessor and successor.
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A 'troll" comment? Get real. It was a simple, factual reply to a comment.
The 5DSR was Canon's highest resolution camera. It had 50MP.
The R5 is in the "5 series" and is Canon's current highest resolution camera. It has 45MP.

Your comment that "There has never been a 5 series upgrade without considerable resolution increase" is utter nonsense, and you know it.
 
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