Canon Adds EOS R50 and EOS R8 to the Growing EOS R Mirrorless Camera System

[Czardoom]

No need to wait:


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During the last few months the Z5 body was sold for 1050,- EUR in Germany, with the R8 at 1800 EUR.. Now it went back up in price, but even so it seems to be the substantially better camera. Hard to argue against it for a newcomer right now.

I owned an Z5 when I switched briefly to Nikon a couple years ago. It is, in my opinion, the best FF camera for the price. The new Z lenses are certainly the equal - and some are probably superior - to the new RF lenses from Canon. I highly recommend the Z5. The question is, how many folks are really interested in the Z5, and how many just want to whine and complain about the new R8. Those really interested should switch. You may be very happy with Nikon. They need your support and purchases.

 

[Deepboy]

I'm sure there will be some people like you who can appreciate those differences. But the vast majority of those who are drawn to the low end of the market are going to be looking at capabilities, results (and how easy it is to get them) and (somewhat) availability of lenses, and the lowest cost way to get them. They will assume that the manufacturer has provided a reasonable way to access the features they'll most commonly need, and live with whatever limitations those controls have if and when they start using the camera in a more sophisticated fashion.

In fact i wrote "personally"

 

[bbasiaga]

Yeah, Apple's SuperDrive draws over spec through USB-A. It's fine when connected directly to a USB-A Mac, but most hubs and even some USB-C-to-A dongles don't support it. Before anyone asks, CDs/DVDs are an archaic storage media that used to contain data, software, music and video, and looked like this:

View attachment 207506

Don't get me started on Zip drives.....

Interesting factoid - the zip drives would occasionally bounce a read head in to the disk, which would create a divot, which would then cause a click sound as it hit the read head every time it came by. Sometimes called the 'click of death'. If you took this disk and put it in another zip drive, the divot would hit the head there, knocking it out of alignment. Then the next time you put a clean disk in there, the damaged read head would hit the disk and make the divot. You can see how this could propagate. It is perhaps one of the only examples of a physically transmissible data loss, or 'computer virus' .

It's not lazy, it's intentional. They want to make the RP/R8 less comfortable to use and cheaper to manufacture. If you want to have IBIS, joystick or control wheel, you need to spend more money. You cannot put cropped 4K without AF in a modern full frame anymore, so you need to differentiate in other ways.

Would it surprise you that there are a number of people who prefer the RP form factor and are happy about the size? Your supposition that its Canon's choice to make the body 'uncomfortable' to drive sale is heavily flawed for a number of reasons and based on your personal preference.

Have you run across one of his reviews that doesn't make the subject camera sound nice?

I think we're at a point where most camera gear works very well. So its hard to make a bad review that doesn't sound like nit picking or which really comes down to personal preference.. Even the Nikon bodies which are behind the technology in AF are still very serviceable.

-Brian

 

[Czardoom]

Canon really does not have any full-frame mirrorless camera that competes directly against the Z 5.

And why exactly do you think they need to? Canon is outselling Nikon by a wide margin.

Personally, I agree with all those that think the Z5 is a better value. I highly recommend it. It's good that all the brands are not producing identical cameras, don't you think? It really gives the consumer choices.

 

[Deepboy]

The 6D had a launch price of $1899 in the USA in 2012 (some sources say $2099). The inflation rate since then is 1.29% - so a 6D today would cost.....
$2499. Gee...

I can tell you the prices, as I remember well, in euro: I paid the 5D Mark II 2.100€ in 2009.
Then in 2014 I bought the 6D for 1.400€, selling the 5DII for the same amount, so no-loss/no-gain switch, but camera was newer, used SD which I preferred, and even with same mpx as the 5DII, the 6D sensor was way better.
For me was the perfect camera and no brainer at that price, while the 5D III in the same moment was going for 2.300/2.400€, so basically 1.000€ more for a camera with same mpx (20 vs 22 was not a difference) and a sensor with basically the same quality. I felt with 6D they re-released the 5DII with refined specs and quality, and 5D III was not really offering anything more; second slot, improved AF and 2mpx extra were not worth 1.000€ for my use.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Looking at TDP's review, the readout speed of the R8 is very good – a couple of ms faster than the R5, meaning the R6II/R8 may now be the fastest non-stacked sensors. Too bad it's not fast enough to support using a flash, unlike the R3.

 

[Sporgon]

I had the 5DII, when 6D came out I immediately made the switch, I sold the 5DII for the very same price I paid the 6D, so it was a no-loss switch, but i got a newer camera, with same mpx count so no losses there, the sensor was better then 5DII and on par with 5DIII (actually very high iso were just a pinch better on 6D)

One of the biggest advantages that the 6D had / has over the 5DII is one that is never reported anywhere, apart from Lens Rentals. When paired with post 2012 EF lenses the 6D is capable of much more accurate and precise AF. The exception to the 2012 date is the 2010 EF 70-300L which also allowed the improved AF accuracy.

 

[Czardoom]

... is the 24.2MP sensor better than the 26.2MP sensor?

The RP still had the old off-sensor ADC. So the new sensor should be significantly better in IQ.

 

[padam]

I should have said SWITCH an R for an R8; if you start from scratch you may prefer r8, but if someone already bought R instead of the RP, it means he rather prefer a slightly bigger body, but with LP-E6 batteries, and would never switch to a R8.

Then, it always depends on usage, if you shoot in studio, you rather prefer more mpx of the R, the shutter loudness has no impact, same for the rolling shutter, same for weight, same for ISO, dynamic range at "studio iso" (95% 100iso, and usually never more then 400iso) I bet is practically indistinguishable, AF as well there's much difference but you see it in moving subject, if you shoot still portraits or still life then AF speed and precision is not an issue.

Not necessarily just one or the other. I would prefer a bigger body for certain things, but also a smaller body for others.
The EG-E1 additional grip is also available if needed.
Just like prime lenses over zooms, one is not better than the other... it's not like Canon RF L lenses being cheap compared to the bodies so it's not necessarily a huge expense...
Most end users would be happy to have a body to just carry around day to day, while their main professional body might be different.

That's just not quite true in practice.
The R looses face, or switches to the farther eye much easier than an R6. Has to be grabbed again by the AF point and the user can only access one AF mode at a time, has to be switched constantly for the best performance.
So on cameras like an R6 or newer, keeper rate is a good bit higher in practice.
With these newer cameras multiple buttons can be configured for instantly accessing various AF modes, way more usable in practice.

So yes, there definitely reasons to switch an R for an R8 (in the same way that there are also other reasons/downgrades not to do it). Just depends on how much it actually costs, which is another factor.

 

[londonxt]

I am afraid that the R replacement is called R5, if you want higher than basic resolution, good build, and top LCD. Unfortunately it is 4500€ body only. ;(

The R was a pretty unique camera and as such I would guess a one off, it was not a mirrorless "5D" camera but set up in a unique point in history to both entice people to the new R lens format and to test the waters with mirrorless in general and was allowed to be a combination of experimental with some high end specs at a lower overall price point.

 

[Sporgon]

The RP still had the old off-sensor ADC. So the new sensor should be significantly better in IQ.

How so ? When working within the dynamic range of the sensor there will be no difference in “IQ”. As 99.9% of pictures are taken within the 10 stops of DR that the RP has IQ will be indistinguishable.

 

[londonxt]

So yes, there definitely reasons to switch an R for an R8 (in the same way that there are also other reasons/downgrades not to do it). Just depends on how much it actually costs, which is another factor.

Well yes if I didnt have other priorities a small and light FF body like the R8 would be a perfect addition for those situations where that would trump other considerations. The R for mixed weather/environment multi-day excusrions, the R8 for day trips or longer in more predictable weather and environments particularly urban.

 

[Deepboy]

Do you really think a joystick is needed, given the sophistication of modern AF systems such as that in the R8?

All you need to do is to leave the AF spot in its default central position, over the subject, and then recompose. As long as you keep half-pressure on the shutter button, the subject will remain in focus, regardless of how you recompose, and regardless of where the subject moves. The joystick is pretty much a redundant feature these days. Moving the AF spot manually via a joystick or via the touch screen just slows you down.

A second dial is also no longer needed, because RF lenses have a control wheel that can be assigned to aperture, shutter speed, ISO or exposure compensation.

Focus and recompose, every time, like in the DSLR's days, when I've the possibility to rapidly off-set the af point with the joystick? I would say that, given the flexibility in moving a single AF point that we get with ML cameras, a joystick it's almost a basic feature if you're not using the camera just for family holiday pics twice a year...

Second dial not needed? Never heard about exposure TRIANGLE? At least two dials are REALLY needed for any use that is more then just amateurish, so you can control two parameters of the triangle with the two camera dials, while the third parameter (usually aperture) is assigned to the control wheel on the lens, so you can move the whole triangle just with dials, without touching any button/menu.

 

[neuroanatomist]

How so ? When working within the dynamic range of the sensor there will be no difference in “IQ”. As 99.9% of pictures are taken within the 10 stops of DR that the RP has IQ will be indistinguishable.

Clearly, you have not visited the DxO Museum.

 

[Deepboy]

One of the biggest advantages that the 6D had / has over the 5DII is one that is never reported anywhere, apart from Lens Rentals. When paired with post 2012 EF lenses the 6D is capable of much more accurate and precise AF. The exception to the 2012 date is the 2010 EF 70-300L which also allowed the improved AF accuracy.

The 6D's center point was well known to be amazing in AF speed and precision, I recall was declared, from Canon's specifics themselves, to work better in low light then the 5D III (something like -6EV vs -5EV, but honestly don't remember exact numbers)

 

[nunataks]

The 6D had a launch price of $1899 in the USA in 2012 (some sources say $2099). The inflation rate since then is 1.29% - so a 6D today would cost.....
$2499. Gee...

You can't tie inflation to electronics because they are always exponentially going to be cheaper to produce.

 

[londonxt]

Focus and recompose, every time, like in the DSLR's days, when I've the possibility to rapidly off-set the af point with the joystick? I would say that, given the flexibility in moving a single AF point that we get with ML cameras, a joystick it's almost a basic feature if you're not using the camera just for family holiday pics twice a year...

Second dial not needed? Never heard about exposure TRIANGLE? At least two dials are REALLY needed for any use that is more then just amateurish, so you can control two parameters of the triangle with the two camera dials, while the third parameter (usually aperture) is assigned to the control wheel on the lens, so you can move the whole triangle just with dials, without touching any button/menu.

Not that Ive tried recent models but doesnt the modern trend of seemingly infinite AF points covering most of the sensor render the joystick approach a bit redundant? There are cursor buttons on the R but it takes forever to get across the typical composition points. The touch screen makes more sense in this brave new world but has the habit of moving the points when not required. Eye controlled focus seems optimal by ticking all boxes.

 

[Czardoom]

For what it's worth. Canon RP launch price in USA $1299. Factoring in the inflation rate since then...would now count $1,508.

For me as an R owner, I think the R8 will be my R replacement, mainly due to the smaller size and weight, and also the improved AF system. Will have to see some reviews. Mainly will be my landscape camera, but if it does reasonably well for birds and wildlife, might also serve as a 2nd camera to my R7 when I don't want to - or have time to - switch lenses in the field.

 

[Czardoom]

You can't tie inflation to electronics because they are always exponentially going to be cheaper to produce.

Hahahaha! Good one.

 

[padam]

Not that Ive tried recent models but doesnt the modern trend of seemingly infinite AF points covering most of the sensor render the joystick approach a bit redundant? There are cursor buttons on the R but it takes forever to get across the typical composition points. The touch screen makes more sense in this brave new world but has the habit of moving the points when not required. Eye controlled focus seems optimal by ticking all boxes.

When shooting video handheld, moving the focus area with the joystick while keeping the camera grip steady is really useful.