Canon EOS 5D Mark IV to Feature CFast & SD Card Slots [CR2]

I'll be in the minority (?) here (haven't gone through the whole thread yet), but I'm not crazy about such a move, if true. CFast is still unbelievably expensive and for those of us with a collection of regular CF cards, and who don't do video, it's another hump. Depending on other developments...if the improvements are mostly geared to the video crowd (no disrespect to those who utilize it, I know it's popular) I may skip this one...
 
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cfast like cf is too big by today's standards. i would have prferred standardization on sd or microsd cards. uhs III will be fast enough for everything.

luckuily i gave not bought more cf cards for years now. only use them in 5D3. everything else runs on microsd cards - there is a simple and cheap adapter to sd.
 
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pwp said:
Interesting that by far the highest number of respondents in this thread are coming at it from a video shooters viewpoint, which suggests that Cfast is a feature most highly valued by video shooters for the obvious reasons. As a stills shooter CFast vs CF is neither here nor there. It would have been nice to ditch SD and follow the 1DXII with CFast/CF. Oh well it's a minor feature in the scheme of things. Just keep the 5DIV MP number under 24 and provide longer shutter life. My 5DIII is on it's third shutter! They're not expensive...just annoying when they bust.

I'm not sure what you do to them shutters, but daymn... 1DX is surely another beast when it comes to shutters, but the local CPS service center told me that they've had a 1DX with 2.5million clicks before the shutter was replaced. I'm only at ~38K clicks on my 5D3, so it should be long before it fails.

As for Mpix/fps, my guess is a modest bump to 24-25Mpix and 7 fps. This would make the MP/s ratio of the 1DX2:5D4 match the ratio from 1DX:5D3.
 
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tpatana said:
dilbert said:
tpatana said:
dilbert said:
pwp said:
Interesting that by far the highest number of respondents in this thread are coming at it from a video shooters viewpoint, which suggests that Cfast is a feature most highly valued by video shooters for the obvious reasons. As a stills shooter CFast vs CF is neither here nor there. It would have been nice to ditch SD and follow the 1DXII with CFast/CF. Oh well it's a minor feature in the scheme of things. Just keep the 5DIV MP number under 24 and provide longer shutter life. My 5DIII is on it's third shutter! They're not expensive...just annoying when they bust.

They're not as annoying as bent pins.

Impossible to make everything idiot proof. Morons always find a way to break things. It's unbelievable how genius they are in that regard.

You might want to be careful about statements like this as you've no idea who has or how many people have bent pins. SD and CFast are, however, resilient in this regard.

For sure accidents happen. To me too. But knowing stuff you write here, I wasn't surprised if you also liked to bend pins.


-pw
 

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kaihp said:
pwp said:
My 5DIII is on it's third shutter! They're not expensive...just annoying when they bust.
I'm not sure what you do to them shutters, but daymn...

Old fashioned high mileage. My 5D III seems to get untidy at around 130,000. CPS says this is pretty typical. Though some seem to go for ever. I had a 5D Classic which I retired with over 500K on the clock...all original. And a 1D MkIIn with several hundred K all original. It's just luck of the draw...

-pw
 
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slclick said:
Never.bent.a.pin.


But then again I take care of my gear and don't rush important things like card insertion. Maybe it's how I was raised loading film correctly?

There's nothing quite like the feeling you get when you start to wind the take up reel and there is absolutely no resistance.
 
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Don Haines said:
roxics said:
You shouldn't hold the camera technology back just because some people want to use their old memory cards. Imagine where we'd be if all digital cameras today still had to use the same memory cards that came out when digital cameras first started taking off.
+1

There is a name for those cards. Compact Flash :)

I was thinking more along the lines of the old sony I had had that you put a 1.44MB floppy in the back of. That was the "old/original" memory card for me in digital photography. I can't for the life of me remember the model name/series... it was something like maverick or something like that. <1 MP resolution... a real champ.


Bennymiata said:
My 5d3 is getting old and scruffy looking, so I'm hanging out for the new 5d4.
Will love the 4k video too.

I had a Sony Mavica camera that used a floppy disk as its memory card, and my company had a Fuji camera that used cf cards and I gave staff members their own cards, which were 256 Megs!
I'm going back to late 1990's!


Someone else beat me to it I guess... MAvica!
 
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unfocused said:
slclick said:
Never.bent.a.pin.


But then again I take care of my gear and don't rush important things like card insertion. Maybe it's how I was raised loading film correctly?

There's nothing quite like the feeling you get when you start to wind the take up reel and there is absolutely no resistance.

Ugh... even to this day, I get sick to my stomach just thinking about this. I lost my entire first day of travels in Europe during my high school trip there to a failed-load of the old 35mm. I had lost shots before that, but that one stung enough to know that I needed to double check the load every time.
 
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K said:
Canon almost had no choice.

If they put CF in the 5D4, they would be using an old technology that is maxed out on speed which would be expected to compete with other cameras for the next 4 years. That's not going to work.

They have the option of either:

XQD
CFast
SD UHS-II


Any combination of the above. They don't want to use Sony's card, so that's out. That leaves very little choice.

Dual CFast, which would annoy many as they'd be forced to use these expensive cards. Not even the 1DX2 uses two of them. So that's out.

Dual SD UHS-II. This I would have preferred. Smaller cards. Just as reliable as CF if not more. Lower costs. Plenty fast for whatever this camera is going to put out. Backward compatible with older SD formats.

CFast + SD UHS-II which is what this rumor is about and the most likely combo. Canon feels it will have to provide at least one super high speed card. But I think it is more industry reaction. There's too many out there that attribute the physical size and characteristics of CF and CFast to reliability and robustness. Sure, I'll agree the C cards are tougher than SD which is smaller and flimsier. But c'mon already - who subjects their cards to physical abuse? Who has snapped an SD card? If you break an SD card due to physical abuse, you're probably not using any electronic device successfully. Bizarre concerns here.

The key here is that C cards are associated with "professional" quality/speed in the minds of pros and semi-pros and even some enthusiasts, so Canon is reacting to this in their semi-pro camera. They aren't basing this on technological fact but rather market perception in my opinion. Nikon doesn't mind using dual SD in the D750 which while might not be labeled pro or semi-pro, is in quality and features, at least a semi-pro to pro camera.


The C cards take up so much space in a camera body - I'd like to see one day a DSLR go to an SSD with an SD card as a backup/removable. 512gb or larger SSD. Either internal, or again, because the C slot take up so much space, a servicesabe one could be incorporated. It wouldn't be a card to be regularly removed, but removable for service if need be. (not soldered onto the mainboard).


Some hate this idea as they would have to then tether the camera via USB or whatever interface to dump the photos or video. I don't see why this is a problem. With CFast and UHS-II you need a new card reader(s) to take advantage of any of the speed. And these card readers all interface via USB-3 anyway. So you're stuck with extra cables anyhow as well as extra cost. Don't count on any laptop or PC having a CFast port on it anytime ever.

A camera with a USB-C port would be great. Smaller and more universal than USB-3. Or, a Thunderbolt port, which is compatible and the same as the modern DisplayPort. This is even faster, and can also carry video at data rates much faster than the lame HDMI standard. HDMI is finicky and unreliable - and can barely put out the top 4K qualities. DP easily does it. The physical port is smaller too and more robust.

I'd rather have a simple cable to connect my camera to PC, than have to buy another card reader. The transfer speed will be faster than having to involve a middleman card reader interface.


People will say built in SSD would be expensive. Compared to what? CFast is pricy. As is XQD. These are essentially mid-level SSD's in a easily removable form factor. Costs more to make them quick swappable. Card costs, card reader cost, then interface costs for manufacture. This cannot be cheaper than SSD.

One downside, and I see this as a very minimal downside are some event shooters that say they need to upload photos quick while continuing the shoot. Handing over cards to an associate who is publishing on site. This sounds like less of a card problem, and more of a need for a wireless transfer solution. Canon has an wireless transfer module that does just that.
As a business we have been using CFast cards since Arri brought out the Amira. They were very expensive then but the price has dropped considerably. CFast has proved to be very reliable much more reliable than CF cards. As for data handling as long as your workflow is set-up correctly they don't slow you down or create back-up issues so I think this is a very sensible move by Canon as well as the retention of an SD slot as in a bind your much more likely to be able to buy these even the newer type USH-II.
I know Sandisk has had issues with one type of CFast card & with the Canon 1D X MKII but this comes down to testing for both Sandisk & Canon or indeed the end user we test all cards before going into rental.
 
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Happy with this, only slight surprise is that it's not CR3!

Questions though , stills only

Assuming a 28mp sensor what would the theoretical max fps be on just the SD being available?
And ditto for a 24mp sensor

I guess the answer needs to be extrapolated from existing cameras without knowing how the 5d4 will be built? I don't know how :-[
(Canon may of course desire a slower rate for either for many valid reasons)

Thanks
 
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zim said:
Happy with this, only slight surprise is that it's not CR3!

Questions though , stills only

Assuming a 28mp sensor what would the theoretical max fps be on just the SD being available?
And ditto for a 24mp sensor

I guess the answer needs to be extrapolated from existing cameras without knowing how the 5d4 will be built? I don't know how :-[
(Canon may of course desire a slower rate for either for many valid reasons)

Thanks
The maximum transfer rate in UHS-II, is triple UHS-I.
So it seems that could reach more frames per second than the 7D Mark ii.

You can record 4K for sure. But do not know which bit rate is sufficient for video uncompressed 4K.
 
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ajfotofilmagem said:
zim said:
Happy with this, only slight surprise is that it's not CR3!

Questions though , stills only

Assuming a 28mp sensor what would the theoretical max fps be on just the SD being available?
And ditto for a 24mp sensor

I guess the answer needs to be extrapolated from existing cameras without knowing how the 5d4 will be built? I don't know how :-[
(Canon may of course desire a slower rate for either for many valid reasons)

Thanks
The maximum transfer rate in UHS-II, is triple UHS-I.
So it seems that could reach more frames per second than the 7D Mark ii.

You can record 4K for sure. But do not know which bit rate is sufficient for video uncompressed 4K.
A 7D2 goes at 10 frames per second and the SD card "almost" keeps up. At 1 1/2 times the speed, it would. At 3X the speed, it should be able to keep up with at least a 30Mpixel and probably a 40Mpixel camera going at 10FPS....
 
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ajfotofilmagem said:
zim said:
Happy with this, only slight surprise is that it's not CR3!

Questions though , stills only

Assuming a 28mp sensor what would the theoretical max fps be on just the SD being available?
And ditto for a 24mp sensor

I guess the answer needs to be extrapolated from existing cameras without knowing how the 5d4 will be built? I don't know how :-[
(Canon may of course desire a slower rate for either for many valid reasons)

Thanks
The maximum transfer rate in UHS-II, is triple UHS-I.
So it seems that could reach more frames per second than the 7D Mark ii.

You can record 4K for sure. But do not know which bit rate is sufficient for video uncompressed 4K.

If they used the same modes as the 1DXII they would require bit rates of 800 mbps for 60p and 500 mbps for 30p. In theory the fastest UHS-II cards could do that (probably the only one that can do it reliably would be the Lexar 2000X cards however).
 
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Don Haines said:
ajfotofilmagem said:
zim said:
Happy with this, only slight surprise is that it's not CR3!

Questions though , stills only

Assuming a 28mp sensor what would the theoretical max fps be on just the SD being available?
And ditto for a 24mp sensor

I guess the answer needs to be extrapolated from existing cameras without knowing how the 5d4 will be built? I don't know how :-[
(Canon may of course desire a slower rate for either for many valid reasons)

Thanks
The maximum transfer rate in UHS-II, is triple UHS-I.
So it seems that could reach more frames per second than the 7D Mark ii.

You can record 4K for sure. But do not know which bit rate is sufficient for video uncompressed 4K.
A 7D2 goes at 10 frames per second and the SD card "almost" keeps up. At 1 1/2 times the speed, it would. At 3X the speed, it should be able to keep up with at least a 30Mpixel and probably a 40Mpixel camera going at 10FPS....

So 8fps (I don't believe it will be above 28mp) is perfectly reasonable with this configuration whatever slot is in use, happy about that

Cheers
 
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I recently spent almost £150 on another 128 GB CF card - but no, this is not another grumble about my CF cards becoming redundant. 15 years ago I used to spend £150 and more on processing film when I got back from holiday. If I have to spend that occasionally on something I can use again and again, I'm fine with that.
 
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dilbert said:
pwp said:
Interesting that by far the highest number of respondents in this thread are coming at it from a video shooters viewpoint, which suggests that Cfast is a feature most highly valued by video shooters for the obvious reasons. As a stills shooter CFast vs CF is neither here nor there. It would have been nice to ditch SD and follow the 1DXII with CFast/CF. Oh well it's a minor feature in the scheme of things. Just keep the 5DIV MP number under 24 and provide longer shutter life. My 5DIII is on it's third shutter! They're not expensive...just annoying when they bust.

They're not as annoying as bent pins.

Do you actually know anyone who has ever bent the pins?
 
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