Canon EOS R3 to have a 30mp sensor? [CR1]

[tiggy@mac.com]

It was with half battery: Canon's ES fps doesn't slow down with battery drain. The SD card is more than fast enough for a 21 shot burst - the cache on the R5 is about 2Gb or 40 shots of full RAW. But, that's beside the point - the camera has a CFExpress slot. Complaining that everything has to be right to get maximum performance is like complaining your car doesn't get the stated mpg when driving up hill.

Canon indicates that their OEM batteries will give you top frames per second until they're about a third used up. BUT, tests show that they actually provide that performance for two thirds of their capacity. Third party LP-e6NH batteries do indeed have the full-performance for only one third of their capacity.

 

[cayenne]

I do the same. Pay with Pay Boo to get the immediate sales tax credit when purchasing. Then, when I receive the product, I immed pay it off to avoid any interest charges. I'm sure that Synchrony Bank is hoping you don't pay the balance off, so they can get the high interest return on unpaid balances and I'm sure that's what some buyers do. Good system for me, especially on high ticket items. Buy it using Pay Boo. Pay it off immediately.

Yup.

I don't buy anything that I don't have cash in hand to pay for.
Even with things like on Amazon, where they give you 12 or more months interest free to pay...I have the cash to buy it outright. I"ll do it on the installment plan and put that cash in a savings account and draw at least a little interest on it.

But that sales tax savings is a KILLER....it is darned near 10% down here where I live...so, when you buy $10K worth of stuff....that's saving me a significant amount of money.

I tend not to be the type to buy a bunch of little stuff all the time...I sit and plan and SAVE for months or years at a time....and when I have the cash, I drop serious coin on something I want.

 

[AlanF]

Canon indicates that their OEM batteries will give you top frames per second until they're about a third used up. BUT, tests show that they actually provide that performance for two thirds of their capacity. Third party LP-e6NH batteries do indeed have the full-performance for only one third of their capacity.

Your tests, for which we are very grateful, are mainly stated for the mechanical shutter. What is the observed decrease in frame rate for electronic shutter with battery charge?

 

[privatebydesign]

Canon indicates that their OEM batteries will give you top frames per second until they're about a third used up. BUT, tests show that they actually provide that performance for two thirds of their capacity. Third party LP-e6NH batteries do indeed have the full-performance for only one third of their capacity.

I use LP-E19’s in the 1DX II, the same battery that is in the R3. I haven’t conducted stringent tests but don’t notice a fps drop off even when they are very low on charge. I also have a 3 year old battery that has been recharged hundreds of times and gave me over 2,500 shots the other day before being unable to power the camera on.

I think those that are not used to the 1 series battery, but still appreciate battery performance, are going to be blown away by the R3.

 

[melgross]

Indeed, and that's why many people in MA travel a bit north to NH (where there is no sales tax) for major purchases. However, that doesn't exempt them from the use tax, if the item is bought with an intent to use it in MA people are still required to declare such purchases and pay the sales/use tax when they file their annual state tax return (not that most people do, but just like the fact that most people drive a bit over the speed limit, it's still illegal).

In fact, MA took a tire chain to court a decade ago over that issue, arguing that if a car had MA plates, tires put on the car in NH were intended for use in MA and subject to the use tax. MA lost the court case, not because the tax isn't due but because MA could not force an out-of-state retailer to collect taxes on their behalf. But that situation changed with the Supreme Court ruling in 2018, that allowed states to require out-of-state businesses to collect sales tax on items shipped to their residents.

Well, nobody does that. In fact, for a camera, it’s insane. Is that tax in MA just for people living there as their main residence? Who can say where it’s being used? Maybe you live there but bought it to use in your studio in another state. Who is going to look into that?

 

[melgross]

Not everyone lives near a state line. It's a 2+ hour drive for me to any of four different state lines, perhaps 3 hours to a fourth one, 4 1/2 hours to the one furthest away. And when I get to those lines, I'm basically that far away from a sizeable town I could make a major purchase in...that town being the one I just left.

Of course, but if you’re avoiding a couple hundred bucks, or more, on taxes, you might be persuaded to travel that hour each way. Many people travel a lot more than that to work and back five days a week.

 

[melgross]

Yes, but in doing so you need to factor in the cost of the trip. In my case, the nearest state is some three to four hours away by car. Thus, for the trip to the next state to be economically justifiable, I would have to save some 250 miles times two (there and back) times 55 cents per mile, or some $270. (This calculation makes the assumption that the store I wish to visit is just across the state line.) It would have to be a pretty large purchase to make a sales-tax profit on such a trip. Furthermore, my state collects, or attempts to collect, a use tax on out-of-state purchases. Thus, if I completely comply with the law, such a trip would always result in a net loss, even if I could walk to the next state.

Sure. I’m not saying it’s worthwhile for everyone. It depends on your tax rate where you are. Here in NYC it’s around 9%. In at least parts of Maryland it’s around 11% so for a $3,900 camera, the R5, and one lens, say $1,000, we’re talking about $500 in sales tax between the two states, as an average.

that’s well beyond what someone would spend for the trip. And it depends on how important that savings is. To some, it means a lot, while to others, not much.

again, who really pays a use tax for purchases such as a camera?

 

[stevelee]

again, who really pays a use tax for purchases such as a camera?

Those who obey the law.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Well, nobody does that. In fact, for a camera, it’s insane. Is that tax in MA just for people living there as their main residence? Who can say where it’s being used? Maybe you live there but bought it to use in your studio in another state. Who is going to look into that?

No one is going to look into it, but it's illegal and more importantly it represents a significant loss of revenue for state governments. That's why MA sued Town Fair Tire, though they lost at the state level). That's also why SD sued Wayfair, a case which went up to the SCOTUS and led to the 2018 ruling that resulted in online retailers collecting use taxes from buyers with residences in any of the 45 states (and DC) that levy a sales/use tax.

again, who really pays a use tax for purchases such as a camera?

Since 2018, anyone who buys one from any retailer in the US, unless you live in one of the 5 states that have no sales tax (or unless you travel to one of those states and buy the camera in a brick-and-mortar store, and then choose to break the law by not reporting that purchase when you file your state tax return).

 

[AlanF]

No one is going to look into it, but it's illegal and more importantly it represents a significant loss of revenue for state governments. That's why MA sued Town Fair Tire, though they lost at the state level). That's also why SD sued Wayfair, a case which went up to the SCOTUS and led to the 2018 ruling that resulted in online retailers collecting use taxes from buyers with residences in any of the 45 states (and DC) that levy a sales/use tax.


Since 2018, anyone who buys one from any retailer in the US, unless you live in one of the 5 states that have no sales tax (or unless you travel to one of those states and buy the camera in a brick-and-mortar store, and then choose to break the law by not reporting that purchase when you file your state tax return).

Sad news, John McAfee just reported as having committed suicide in Spain because under threat for extradition to USA on tax evasion charges. According to the BBC, in 2019 Mr McAfee expressed his disdain for taxes, tweeting that he had not filed tax returns for eight years because "taxation is illegal."

 

[Ozarker]

No one is going to look into it, but it's illegal and more importantly it represents a significant loss of revenue for state governments. That's why MA sued Town Fair Tire, though they lost at the state level). That's also why SD sued Wayfair, a case which went up to the SCOTUS and led to the 2018 ruling that resulted in online retailers collecting use taxes from buyers with residences in any of the 45 states (and DC) that levy a sales/use tax.


Since 2018, anyone who buys one from any retailer in the US, unless you live in one of the 5 states that have no sales tax (or unless you travel to one of those states and buy the camera in a brick-and-mortar store, and then choose to break the law by not reporting that purchase when you file your state tax return).

Another one of the laws that can be used to get someone if nothing else will stick. Arbitrary, yes. But not unprecedented. There are many such laws. Capone comes to mind.

 

[arbitrage]

Your tests, for which we are very grateful, are mainly stated for the mechanical shutter. What is the observed decrease in frame rate for electronic shutter with battery charge?

The ES never drops out of 20FPS because of battery life. There can be some other factors (Canon lists them in the manual) that can end up not achieving the full 20FPS but it isn't a standardized drop with indicated icons like in MS/EFCS.

I found the MS/EFCS drop out of 12FPS to be very variable. Some days I had it drop at as high as ~70% remaining charge and then other days it would only drop at around 36% remaining charge. When it did drop at a higher charge I could sometimes switch the camera off and back on and it would go back to 12FPS. But usually would drop out again shortly after. This was all with geniune Canon LP-E6NH batteries. With 3rd party NH batteries the drop always occurred a bit earlier but some days would still go into the low 40% charge remaining before dropping. 3rd party batteries were more inconsistent than OEM.

 

[AlanF]

The ES never drops out of 20FPS because of battery life. There can be some other factors (Canon lists them in the manual) that can end up not achieving the full 20FPS but it isn't a standardized drop with indicated icons like in MS/EFCS.

I found the MS/EFCS drop out of 12FPS to be very variable. Some days I had it drop at as high as ~70% remaining charge and then other days it would only drop at around 36% remaining charge. When it did drop at a higher charge I could sometimes switch the camera off and back on and it would go back to 12FPS. But usually would drop out again shortly after. This was all with geniune Canon LP-E6NH batteries. With 3rd party NH batteries the drop always occurred a bit earlier but some days would still go into the low 40% charge remaining before dropping. 3rd party batteries were more inconsistent than OEM.

Thanks, that is what I thought and remembered from you, but I couldn't track it down. My R5 never seems to drop from 20fps in ES but I don't like making claims unless I am sure of my facts.

 

[melgross]

Those who obey the law.

In other words, almost nobody.

 

[privatebydesign]

30MP from 20MP is insignificant from a resolution perspective. You would need "appoximetly" 60MP.

If the objective is better IQ... This puppy at 30MP is a distraction until the R1

I’ve had this discussion before and found it to not be true. Rather than look at it from a linear resolution perspective I look at 20mp ‘low resolution’ sensors as 20 million data point sensors, a 30mp sensor gives me 50% more data. When you are coming from 20mp that 50% extra data is noticeable and is useful, far more so than a jump from 45 to 60, for instance.

 

[GoldWing]

I’ve had this discussion before and found it to not be true. Rather than look at it from a linear resolution perspective I look at 20mp ‘low resolution’ sensors as 20 million data point sensors, a 30mp sensor gives me 50% more data. When you are coming from 20mp that 50% extra data is noticeable and is useful, far more so than a jump from 45 to 60, for instance.

Rellity is that double the resolution of the 1DXMKIII is 85MP. Just a simple fact.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Rellity is that double the resolution of the 1DXMKIII is 85MP. Just a simple fact.

Only if you’re a purely linear thinker in a one-dimensional reality.

 

[privatebydesign]

Rellity is that double the resolution of the 1DXMKIII is 85MP. Just a simple fact.

As neuro points out far more succinctly than I could, if you look at your two dimensional picture in a single dimension and ignore the fact that 50% more pixels is still 50% more. And also add in the fact that ‘double the resolution’ has little to no meaning in the context of 99.9% of images you might have a point.

I recently saw some of my images from a 20mp camera printed at 40”x30” and they were faultless. Even at eye to print level there was no lose of detail and zero pixilation. I have to be honest I don’t know how it was done but I was very very impressed. I used to think I wanted lots of mp, now, personally, having seen what can be done professionally with 20 and high quality lenses, I don’t.

 

[neuroanatomist]

As neuro points out far more succinctly than I could,

I bet goldmember only uses the single row marquee selection tool when editing in PS.

 

[GoldWing]

Only if you’re a purely linear thinker in a one-dimensional reality.

When we do studio work for Sports and Swimwear Fashion we're shooting at 100mp. And you can clearly see the difference. It is substantial and detailed beyond any 20mp camera. Getting a sports photographer to beleive that he does not want or need more resolution, when they want it, is almost insulting. The R1 will allow users to govern fps in context of file size. For those who don't want the additional resolution, they can by a 20mp camera but why prohibit a professional sports photographer from being able to use their equipment for multiple purposes if you're willing to pay for the tool? Technology is such that this is a reality. The only factor here is lag and bloom even at 240 in an EVF there is lag. There are also issues with direct sun. Canon has not to date, stated or listed patents that reflect these EVF vs OVF optimization. 85mp at 15fps is not the issue