Canon not going global shutter with next round of EOS R camera bodies

Let me try to understand.

Sony makes the body for $6000 at 24mp, but Canon should make a 50mp body for $5000 or they're not "keeping up"?

Nevermind the weaknesses of a global shutter image sensor. We'll have to wait a few months to see if they have closed the gap.
When one walks out on the pitch, professional sports stadium, pro basketball arena, pro tennis match, they will know and see what the landscape looks like. One literally can count Sony still cameras on one single hand. And that has not changed in decades and never will in your life time
 
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Hey I guys, made this account to join the discussion because I was really shocked about this news. I mainly shoot Sony but I had an 5D Mark III before and regularly do keep a look at what Canon is doing because competition is important in a market like this.

Now as for not going global shutter... I wonder how they plan to stay competitive with this decision. It just feels like Canon has no idea at all about what customers actually want. It's just another example after still having the RF mount closed to third party manufacturers. I mean Canon lenses are still top notch but when it comes to cameras I think that Canon is merely a shadow of of its former glory and this gives me confidence in sticking with Sony for the next couple of years.
Given the lenses released recently and the general response to them I’d say canon has a pretty fair idea of some things their customers would like. That being said, if you’re enjoying your Sony stuff, great! Keep shooting and enjoying it, that’s what really matters. If you’re a professional sports photographer who can directly benefit from a global shutter day to day I’d say probably get that pre order in ASAP.

There are things on the new camera I would like to see from Sony’s announcement. Pre record being the big one, but ultimately no regrets whatsoever being on the canon system and not even tempted to switch
 
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Interesting to know. I´ve never read that the L setting is a simulated base ISO. I only read online in different blogs the lowest base ISO would 50. I use the setting quit often to be honest.
This has been discussed many times. Here’s a response of mine from several years ago:

Expanded ISO settings are digital gain applied in camera. Thus, ISO 50 is a digital pull performed in-camera. However, even though the lowest native ISO setting for most cameras is ISO 100, the 'true' base ISO for most cameras is not ISO 100. Rather, it's usually somewhat lower and ISO 100 is actually a slight push. I suspect these slight differences in DR at ISO 50 arise from differences in the true base ISO (e.g. a pull from ISO 84 vs. a pull from ISO 76).

Incidentally, in some cameras the 'tweener' ISOs (e.g., 160, 250, etc.) are a digital pull or push, because analog gain is applied only in full stops, and that's why the DR curves are 'jagged' at the lower end.
 
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I'm afraid not; its base ISO is 100, the L setting (ISO 50) is simulated. Nikon have had bodies with lower true base ISO, of 64 I think.
I think the actual base ISO of R is actually ISO 160 because at that setting R has the highest dynamic range, so ISO 320 has better DR than ISO 250, etc.
 
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This has been discussed many times. Here’s a response of mine from several years ago:
Thx! That discussion has gone on without me or I just joined CR and other forums way too late.

But now I am curious: what is the real native ISO of the EOS R (and other R cameras?) Is there a list or data somewhere?

As I am reading I am actually learning that most people prefer ISO 100 (or 200/ 400) for some reasons. I know what I'll be reading tonight :)
 
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Thx! That discussion has gone on without me or I just joined CR and other forums way too late.

But now I am curious: what is the real native ISO of the EOS R (and other R cameras?) Is there a list or data somewhere?

As I am reading I am actually learning that most people prefer ISO 100 (or 200/ 400) for some reasons. I know what I'll be reading tonight :)

I think the actual base ISO of R is actually ISO 160 because at that setting R has the highest dynamic range.

www.photonstophotos.netSlika zaslona 2023-11-14 u 18.19.15.png
 
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How dare you bring data to a discussion on opinions? I say, how dare you, Sir?!?
I tried that site, clicked on the R3, my r6m2 the 1DX III, nice stuff. Then I clicked on what should be my first Canon digital, the XTI and I had to look twice to find it, almost like there was an eyelash on my screen. Come out with 20 more cameras with bells and whistles I haven't even heard of yet, I will stick with my R6m2's and keep buying glass. Glass. Glass.
 
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When one walks out on the pitch, professional sports stadium, pro basketball arena, pro tennis match, they will know and see what the landscape looks like. One literally can count Sony still cameras on one single hand. And that has not changed in decades and never will in your life time
I agree. I did a few IMSA races this year, I could count Nikon on 2 hands, Sony maybe 100-200, but Canon? There were more 400mm f/2.8 and 300mm f/2.8 lenses there than the other two companies bodies and lenses. I just did a fashion show 3 days ago, there was 1 Nikon, no sony and 75 Canons.

For all who claim Nikon and Sony have better cameras/lenses, I can go to the closest park or nature preserve, walk an hour and observe the local bird enthusiasts and see 90% or greater Canon. Why is that? Better? Faster? Cheaper? More available? I believe it is because Canon just works better to get what they want.
 
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Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways. The R3 would have been named the R1. But Canon could not do it after Sony came up with a 50mp camera a few weeks before launch. So Canon named it R3. I am 100% sure about that. Now they fail again. Sony releases an insane camera with global shutter, just a few months before Canon is launching the R1 without global shutter. So what will canon do? Name it R2 and keep pro users ignorant for another 4 years? Hahahaha. So sad. But I’ll stick to my R6 mark II bodies for a another year or two. Canon, come on! Step up your game!
And second reason not to buy this R1 or R2 is because I am sure Canon will charge an astronomic price for it. Like we know Canon.
7000-8000 euro’s will be the price range.
For a camera that is already outdated the moment it hits the market. So sad.

And go ahead, call me a troll, that’s fine.
The truth is, that I am just a very disappointed Canon pro user for many many years.
Give us the R1 with global shutter and 50mp for 4990 and I will buy two of them. But I am affraid they cannot keep up with their competitors.
If you actually are a photographer and not a gear-head, then you should care about results, not the tech. If you want 45 MPs or more, but can't get more than 24 because the global shutter is not fast enough, then you would still prefer the global shutter? If the Base ISO of 250 of the global shutter gives you worse IQ than a stacked sensor, then you would still prefer the global shutter? My guess, from your comments, is that the answer would be yes. You sound like a seven year old that needs the the latest shiny new toy, regardless of whether or not it would actually work well or suit your needs.
 
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But now I am curious: what is the real native ISO of the EOS R (and other R cameras?) Is there a list or data somewhere?
I don't know if anyone has tabulated them.

The measured base ISO of the EOS R is actually 66. You can check DxOMark (e.g. for the EOS R), measurements tab, ISO sensitivity and hover over the ISO 100 point to see the measured value. Bill Cliff (photonstophotos) gets his source data from DxOMark.
 
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I've been pining for a global shutter for a long time, because I often shoot equine sports in covered but open-sided arenas. A global shutter would make it much easier to make sure the background doesn't get blown out, without having to crank the flashes up higher and use AF-hurting ND filters. And shooting portraits with horses outdoors, it would allow flash with softboxes to be more effective while still keeping a safe distance.

But I also don't want to sacrifice resolution. I'm happy with the 45mp of the R5, and since 1/4 of my action shots are at the far end of the arena and require heavy cropping, I'm not willing to drop down to 24mp, even for a global shutter.

So if Canon is truly able to negate some of the advantages of a global shutter, I really hope that includes significantly faster flash sync speeds. 1/200th in Mechanical Shutter is pathetic, and 1/250th is only marginally better at preventing blown out skies, or motion blur from sunlight bouncing in from the sides. If they can give me at least the resolution and DR of my R5, but with 1/1000th sync speed (without compromise in bokeh), that would be enough to make me stop pining for global shutter.

1/80,000 sync speed would be fun, but 1/1000th would still be a gamechanger for me. And 120fps mode even for outdoor daylight shots - for my equine events, it would be an overwhelming number of shots. Shooting conservatively on a barrel race, that would easily be 600 shots on each horse's run, and they run about 50 an hour. In order to make that work, it seems like there would need to be a tethered computer that could keep up with that flow, and a full-time assistant to constantly cull the photos with a video jog wheel... or infinite hard drive space, but then making sales would... I don't know, maybe just sell them as 8k videos. And is the camera capable of doing this all day long?
 
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Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways. The R3 would have been named the R1. But Canon could not do it after Sony came up with a 50mp camera a few weeks before launch. So Canon named it R3. I am 100% sure about that. Now they fail again. Sony releases an insane camera with global shutter, just a few months before Canon is launching the R1 without global shutter. So what will canon do? Name it R2 and keep pro users ignorant for another 4 years? Hahahaha. So sad. But I’ll stick to my R6 mark II bodies for a another year or two. Canon, come on! Step up your game!
And second reason not to buy this R1 or R2 is because I am sure Canon will charge an astronomic price for it. Like we know Canon.
7000-8000 euro’s will be the price range.
For a camera that is already outdated the moment it hits the market. So sad.

And go ahead, call me a troll, that’s fine.
The truth is, that I am just a very disappointed Canon pro user for many many years.
Give us the R1 with global shutter and 50mp for 4990 and I will buy two of them. But I am affraid they cannot keep up with their competitors.
Oh, I like your approach to life knowing month prior to market launches candidates to be outdated...
Yes, you will not buy them anyway.
 
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I do not see it as much of a problem for Sony.
The a9 series never had the best dynamic range.
Sony still has the a1 to compete with the R1.
Sony's main concern would be the R3 II.
My main problem with Sony is that they are claiming that their were no tradeoffs with dynamic range but it is evident that there were some.

Picking up this idea: Would it not make more sense if Canon introduced a global shutter with an R3 II instead of doing this with the R1? So they could provide one product line 100% focussed on speed, for those who are willing to make the necessary compromises.
 
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And there‘s nothing wrong with that, IMHO. Based on Sony α9ΙΙΙ reviews, it seems that compromises have been made in image quality (such as quite rough noise at high ISO), due to the use of global shutter. I personally prefer getting the best possible IQ. I expect the readout speed of the R1 to be the fastest of any Canon camera to date, and considering that the R3 is already very good in that aspect, there‘s not much to worry about.

Of course, releasing a flagship camera without GS will be the main talking point of some, irrelevantly of how well the camera actually performs, but haters gonna hate anyway.
the funny thing was I thought the A93 was imminent. but later I learned it won't be out until next year. but I guess they wanted to get their announcement out there before anyone else.
 
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But: the manufacturers (incl. Sony and Nikon) have a lot of inertia in the market due to all the glass people have and the long-ish release cycles. Any "wrong" decisions made today would take a while (maybe years) to turn into a loss of marketshare/sales.
Consider that the ratio of lenses to bodies sold is somewhere between 1.6 - 1.8, and also consider entry-level kits make up most of the unit sales, and that the most popular kits are 2-lens kits. In other words, the installed base of camera users comprises a majority of people who own only the camera and the 1-2 lenses that came with it, and a minority of people who own >2 lenses. That means inertia is much less of a factor in the market than you're suggesting.

If inertia were a major factor, Nikon's market share would not have done this:
  • 2017 – 24.9%
  • 2018 – 20.2%
  • 2019 – 18.6%
  • 2020 – 13.7%
  • 2021 – 11.3%
 
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I agree. I did a few IMSA races this year, I could count Nikon on 2 hands, Sony maybe 100-200, but Canon? There were more 400mm f/2.8 and 300mm f/2.8 lenses there than the other two companies bodies and lenses. I just did a fashion show 3 days ago, there was 1 Nikon, no sony and 75 Canons.

For all who claim Nikon and Sony have better cameras/lenses, I can go to the closest park or nature preserve, walk an hour and observe the local bird enthusiasts and see 90% or greater Canon. Why is that? Better? Faster? Cheaper? More available? I believe it is because Canon just works better to get what they want.
Those customers will never understand Sony's advantages ;-)
 
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