Canon Patent Applicaton: DO Supertelephoto with Built-In Extender

[Stig Nygaard]

600 * 1.4 is not 800, but 840.

Yes. Lenses are however rarely precisely what the official spec-sheet says.
And if you look at the details in this patent, it is actually a 585mm lens which with the built-in extender becomes a 819.18mm.

But it is just a patent. Even if Canon decides to make something kinda like this, they don't have to make a final construction exactly the same as the patent.

 

[john1970]

So, looking back a the core of this thread....if this new patented optical formula actually translates into a real lens that is available to buy...what will be it's tangible benefits over the current EF 400mm DO mk II? Especially considering it's going to be an expensive new lens. Is it going to be even lighter? Is the flip in/out 1.4x TC it's only advantage? Is it going to be even sharper than the current mk II, which would reverse a recent RF white prime trend?
What would I get over a trade in of an existing superlative EF mkII lens apart from loosing a mssive pile of hard earned cash?

The only advantages would be the built-in TC and no need to use the EF to RF adapter. It would probably be sharper as well.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

I am quite sure that these will make into production possibly in some further refined from, with the RF 400/4 DO 1.4x coming in earlier. (it will be much higher priced than a Z 400/4.5 and Z 600/6.3 PF, but it will handily compete with both)
And an RF 600/4 1.4x will be priced at least as much as the RF 800/5.6, which could be dropped together with the RF 600/4.
This will take a good few years though.

Looking over these specs ofhte EF 400mm f4 DO II....with a 2x TC this makes a really sharp and neat 600mm f5.6...i really ahve missed a walkabouts trick here.
I might buy one of these S/H in a few months and use as my travel tele.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Looking over these specs ofhte EF 400mm f4 DO II....with a 2x TC this makes a really sharp and neat 600mm f5.6...i really ahve missed a walkabouts trick here.

Perhaps a error in the numbers there...

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Perhaps a error in the numbers there...

Soz, with a 1.4x TC....

 

[padam]

The only advantages would be the built-in TC and no need to use the EF to RF adapter. It would probably be sharper as well.

Not just "any" TC. Made specifically for that optical formula. That's a big performance advantage, flipping it in and out is a huge practical benefit.
With the transition to fly-by-wire manual focus and optical advancements, it could very well become even lighter still.
Also, AF should be even quicker, more decisive, IS should be even more effective etc, and other generic native RF benefits vs EF.
Plenty of improvements - for a lot more money, of course.

The EF lens is limited to the EF TC, which is not as good as an RF TC - unless one uses a hacked aftermarket EF adapter, seems to work quite well, albeit IS will be a little less effective, since it won't register the change in focal length.

 

[AccipiterQ]

I'd sell one of @neuroanatomist's kidneys to get that 600 1.4, smashing the pre-order button so forcefully that it sets off local Richter scales.

 

[john1970]

Not just "any" TC. Made specifically for that optical formula. That's a big performance advantage, flipping it in and out is a huge practical benefit.
With the transition to fly-by-wire manual focus and optical advancements, it could very well become even lighter still.
Also, AF should be even quicker, more decisive, IS should be even more effective etc, and other generic native RF benefits vs EF.
Plenty of improvements - for a lot more money, of course.

The EF lens is limited to the EF TC, which is not as good as an RF TC - unless one uses a hacked aftermarket EF adapter, seems to work quite well, albeit IS will be a little less effective, since it won't register the change in focal length.

Agreed. The built-in TC will be sharper than a generic TC. With that said, I still wish they would make it a bit longer in reach. 500 mm f4 DO with 1.4x TC would be ideal. You could carry the 100-500 mm on one camera and this lens on the other.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

I recognize the low odds of any patent becoming a real lense, but these are the potential ones I'm most excited about - especially the 600/800.

I carry a 600 f/4 (EF III) on my main body with a 1.4x teleconverter (EF). In theory, I can take the TC off, and I do about once a month. In reality I use 840mm as the focal length for almost everything because it takes too much time to swap.

The Z 600 f/4 x 1.4 seems popular enough for Nikon.
The only problem is that these would pretty much obsolete the RF 800 f/5.6 and RF 1200 f/8.
I would expect them to cost more in order to justify selling both.

 

[padam]

Agreed. The built-in TC will be sharper than a generic TC. With that said, I still wish they would make it a bit longer in reach. 500 mm f4 DO with 1.4x TC would be ideal. You could carry the 100-500 mm on one camera and this lens on the other.

It's a balancing act, each user with different needs.
Besides the aforementioned 100-500mm, I've only used a manual 400mm as a prime in that range (obtained another for peanuts but no adapter yet, it should get more respect...)
Quite an interesting focal length for shooting distant portraits of people or some landscapes or close-ups on various objects as well beyond its intended main use cases of sports and wildlife. As far as I can see, 500mm sits exactly in that middle where most people have already moved to a 600mm, and 800mm remains very specialised again especially with the faster 600mm + TC as a much more versatile solution.
Adding in that TC to the 400mm plus further options of in-camera crop mode or just another TC in addition (either a double 1.4x or a 2.0 on its bare setting) make it as versatile as it can possibly be at its size and weight.

 

[padam]

The Z 600 f/4 x 1.4 seems popular enough for Nikon.
The only problem is that these would pretty much obsolete the RF 800 f/5.6 and RF 1200 f/8.
I would expect them to cost more in order to justify selling both.

These are slightly older designs formed from EF-mount lenses to start with. So they are definitely getting replaced at some point with these way more flexible built-in TC options. More money, yes, but also more versatility, so that's a fair trade.
They can still make an 800/5.6 DO or something with a built-in or external TC with better performance to retire the 1200/8, or maybe just a new 600 with a bare 2x or double 1.4x TC works as a substitute.

 

[SHK1]

The EF 400DOII is my favourite ’big white’ of all time. Hand holdable all day, pairs extremely well with TCs, and the reason I sold the 200-400 and the 500/4. I still use it adapted to RF - my last EF lens - and I won’t part with it till there is an RF equivalent. The only thing I never understood about the DO formula is why Canon didn’t make use of it in more lenses. I’m very happy to see this even if it is just at the patent stage.

 

[AlanF]

The EF 400DOII is my favourite ’big white’ of all time. Hand holdable all day, pairs extremely well with TCs, and the reason I sold the 200-400 and the 500/4. I still use it adapted to RF - my last EF lens - and I won’t part with it till there is an RF equivalent. The only thing I never understood about the DO formula is why Canon didn’t make use of it in more lenses. I’m very happy to see this even if it is just at the patent stage.

Had one, sold it by mistake, and then bought another, which I regret having sold again, and still get tempted by cheap used ones. However, an RF lens could be about 450g/1lb lighter, which would make it very attractive.

 

[john1970]

It's a balancing act, each user with different needs.
Besides the aforementioned 100-500mm, I've only used a manual 400mm as a prime in that range (obtained another for peanuts but no adapter yet, it should get more respect...)
Quite an interesting focal length for shooting distant portraits of people or some landscapes or close-ups on various objects as well beyond its intended main use cases of sports and wildlife. As far as I can see, 500mm sits exactly in that middle where most people have already moved to a 600mm, and 800mm remains very specialised again especially with the faster 600mm + TC as a much more versatile solution.
Adding in that TC to the 400mm plus further options of in-camera crop mode or just another TC in addition (either a double 1.4x or a 2.0 on its bare setting) make it as versatile as it can possibly be at its size and weight.

Agreed. It is definitely a balancing act. I prefer the 500 mm f4 because it is a bit easier to travel with than a 600 mm f4. If Canon decided to make a 600 mm f4 DO lens with a built in TC that might change my mind.

 

[padam]

Agreed. It is definitely a balancing act. I prefer the 500 mm f4 because it is a bit easier to travel with than a 600 mm f4. If Canon decided to make a 600 mm f4 DO lens with a built in TC that might change my mind.

Overlap with the 200-500/4, so presumably the same fate as 300/2.8 vs 100-300/2.8
Neither Canon nor Nikon seems to be too keen on DO/Fresnel lenses beyond a certain diameter.

 

[SHK1]

Had one, sold it by mistake, and then bought another, which I regret having sold again, and still get tempted by cheap used ones. However, an RF lens could be about 450g/1lb lighter, which would make it very attractive.

Another interesting thing would be a built-in TC. Mine is basically married to the 1.4x for 560mm @ f/5.6. Occasionally, it ends up being too much FL for my use. A built-in TC is very compelling. Add to this the possibility of adding an additional external TC a la 200-400. That would be a versatile kit. Possibly more interesting than a 200-500 based on the DO size/weight and possibly price tag. All good news!

 

[john1970]

Overlap with the 200-500/4, so presumably the same fate as 300/2.8 vs 100-300/2.8
Neither Canon nor Nikon seems to be too keen on DO/Fresnel lenses beyond a certain diameter.

Canon once made a prototype 600 mm f4 DO lens in the EF mount and showed it at the Canon EXPO in 2015 so they definitely can make it.

 

[john1970]

Another interesting thing would be a built-in TC. Mine is basically married to the 1.4x for 560mm @ f/5.6. Occasionally, it ends up being too much FL for my use. A built-in TC is very compelling. Add to this the possibility of adding an additional external TC a la 200-400. That would be a versatile kit. Possibly more interesting than a 200-500 based on the DO size/weight and possibly price tag. All good news!

Fair points to make.

 

[HenWin]

In this day and age, you need to say "spouse", not "wife"..... It should be obvious, why.....

 

[Skux]

IT'S HAPPENING GUYS LET'S GOOOO