Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

[RustyTheGeek]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

I have purchased a 5D3, a 7D2 along with a 600EX-RT from Get it Digital. All were legit. Registered Ser#'s at Canon the same day. I think Canon is getting blow back from their big retailers on how the lower level retailers are selling "gray market". This is all marketing...that's all it is... If company's are selling counterfeit products then shame on them but for Canon to go after these on line retailers who are selling its products at a lower rate is BS...

Ditto. I agree. I've purchased a LOT of Canon gear since 2009 from a variety of sellers. From all over. New and used. Online and local. Some from eBay/Craigslist, some from my local authorized shop, some from online authorized shops (BH, Adorama, Amazon, etc) and some from the uber-cool (LOL) ultra-discount grey market sellers named in the suits: GetItDigital, et al. Maybe I've just been super lucky but I haven't been cheated once and I've experienced good customer service from all of them whenever I had a problem. Some I have used for years. Some I sold immediately. I like to support my local shop but I also like to get a killer deal sometimes too. I try to balance it out.

Ever since I was a teenager buying car stereos, etc I have wondered why the heck off shore electronics companies worked so hard to "fix" and control prices instead of just selling everything at a wholesale price and let the market do whatever they like. If everything is the same price, the buyer buys from whoever they like the best or provides the best service, etc. Simple as that.

As for all the "violations" listed, I would support Canon when it comes to protecting their quality reputation with regard to counterfeit anything. Why a retailer would want to waste time with doing that and risk getting a reputation for selling that kind of crap I don't understand. Pulling stunts like that is really stupid and short sighted.

IMHO, I think Canon should "focus" on producing great products and let the market do whatever it likes to get them to the buyer. Support the products and not worry about the rest. The whole "authorized retailer" model is a leftover from decades ago before the Internet, Canon Rumors, Global Trade and the ability to expose and share reviews instantaneously about crooked rip-off sellers that hid behind mail order deliveries and phone orders. The "authorized retailer" programs are also a way for Canon to encourage/force the retailer to buy a certain amount/mix of inventory in order to keep that status symbol on their door.

 

[takesome1]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

I find it amazing that the Grey Market sellers find a way to side step the system. Whether they buy from foreign countries. Break kits up. Or whatever other method they use to bring the 'grey" item in. These guys are the scum at the bottom of the sales barrel. Then people wonder why they get bad service form these companies when the marketing methods they use are to look for loop holes in the system.

Yet there are those on this site that bash the mean bad Canon for their legal pricing policies and their attempts to protect their vendors and marketing. It is a sad statement.

Scum? Yikes.

Poor ol' innocent international corporations being harmed by these evil people finding 'loopholes'.

I resent the fact prices are far higher here in the UK than, say, in East Asia. If someone can legally find a way to bring the same product to me for less, then good for them (and good for me). If they're buying stuff abroad, importing it (and paying relevant tax and duty) and selling it on - saving customers money whilst making a profit themselves - how is that unethical?

You can blame your government for the higher prices.

But this was a USA lawsuit. Here Canon has a right to control how their product is marketed and sold through authorized distributors. They infringe on Canon's rights when they do this. Size and wealth of the company or individual should never have a play in whether they have rights or not, all should be equal.

I have no idea how it is unethical in the UK. Maybe companies do not have the same rights.

 

[scyrene]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

I find it amazing that the Grey Market sellers find a way to side step the system. Whether they buy from foreign countries. Break kits up. Or whatever other method they use to bring the 'grey" item in. These guys are the scum at the bottom of the sales barrel. Then people wonder why they get bad service form these companies when the marketing methods they use are to look for loop holes in the system.

Yet there are those on this site that bash the mean bad Canon for their legal pricing policies and their attempts to protect their vendors and marketing. It is a sad statement.

Scum? Yikes.

Poor ol' innocent international corporations being harmed by these evil people finding 'loopholes'.

I resent the fact prices are far higher here in the UK than, say, in East Asia. If someone can legally find a way to bring the same product to me for less, then good for them (and good for me). If they're buying stuff abroad, importing it (and paying relevant tax and duty) and selling it on - saving customers money whilst making a profit themselves - how is that unethical?

You can blame your government for the higher prices.

But this was a USA lawsuit. Here Canon has a right to control how their product is marketed and sold through authorized distributors. They infringe on Canon's rights when they do this. Size and wealth of the company or individual should never have a play in whether they have rights or not, all should be equal.

I have no idea how it is unethical in the UK. Maybe companies do not have the same rights.

Oh I know, and I'm glad it's a different country - although as some have said, it may not be as big a deal as it sounds. Blame the government? I do in part. All governments apply tariffs and duties and it irks me, but there's not much I can do. However, companies seeking to fix prices higher than the market will bear are also to blame.

I can shop around - legally - and that's only right. In the model I outlined - an intermediary buys the product cheaply in one market and sells it in another - they haven't done anything wrong that I can see.

As for all companies being treated equally, sure - but they aren't. Bigger corporations (Canon included) throw their weight around and use legal loopholes a lot more than smaller ones.

 

[cfargo]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

So, just to summarize:

Of the three largest camera manufacturers, Canon offers the most liberal policy toward repairs of gray market products;

They do this, even though Canon USA does not make a penny off of any gray market sales;

For a variety of reasons (mostly having to do with the strong dollar) gray market sales have surged, undercutting Canon's authorized dealers;

Most of these gray market dealers have little to no investment in infrastructure; pay and collect only a tiny fraction of taxes compared to brick and mortar stores; and are able to charge prices that do not include any of the marketing, distribution, and other overhead costs that Canon USA must build into its base costs to retailers;

They have evidence that some gray market dealers are substituting non-Canon approved accessories and altering serial numbers on Canon cameras;

Canon USA could, today, announce it is no longer going to service any product that does not have a Canon USA warranty, as other manufacturers do;

Instead, they have chosen to seek protection through a civil suit that will let the courts sort it all out. If they succeed, a likely result would be that gray market sellers are assessed damages and forced to compensate Canon USA for a fair share of the benefits these gray market dealers get from freeloading on the Canon USA network. (Not unlike the "fair share" dues that many non-union members pay unions because of the benefits they receive from union bargaining)

This sounds pretty reasonable, especially since Canon USA is a business, not a charity.

Canon USA is a subsidiary of Canon Japan (not a separate company/importer) Canon Japan gets the sales no mater where it is sold. Sure it may affect the budget Canon Japan put onto Canon USA but It's a Canon Japn product no mater where it was sold.

 

[photo212]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

Canon USA is a subsidiary of Canon Japan (not a separate company/importer) Canon Japan gets the sales no mater where it is sold. Sure it may affect the budget Canon Japan put onto Canon USA but It's a Canon Japn product no mater where it was sold.

It is Canon repetition on the line. If a bunch of secondary equipment gets out on the market with the Canon brand name, Canon will feel the problem in negative comments and reviews, which leads to fewer sales down the line.

So, you have a camera body with the Canon name that works just fine, but some dealer swapped the Canon battery and recharger for a third party knockoff. The average consumer never notices, but when the battery dies prematurely or the recharger has electrical problems, who gets blamed? Canon.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

If business A is able to offer lower prices than business B because they lower overheads and costs, why shouldn't we (as consumers) be able to benefit from that?

Again. You can. Canon is not trying to stop you. It is trying to stop the grey marketers putting a fake serial number on the camera to try and con Canon into paying for warranty repairs.

Reasonable?

Imagine if someone took Amazon to court because Amazon had an advantage in selling online goods because Amazon didn't have a physical store and thus lower costs. Would anyone stand for that?

That is not what Canon is trying to do

Uh, I think you've got that a bit mixed up. Canon USA is using a court case to force people like you to give Canon USA money because you're in the USA rather than buying from someone else and the money going back to Canon HQ not via Canon USA. So Canon USA wants you to treat them like a charity and give them extra money because you're buying from someone in the USA.

No they are not. Canon is making the grey marketers pay for the warranty cover for items they sell instead of being a parasite making a profit and expecting Canon to pay when and if the item has a fault

To put this more simply...

If there were two web stores, one that sold items provided by Canon USA and one that sold items made by Canon but grey imported and every grey import was 30% cheaper but there are no functional differences between the goods, which are you going to buy? Are you going to buy the more expensive one just so that you can be nice and give Canon USA some money just because?

If Canon USA's business model is not able to compete with grey market imports than Canon USA needs to adapt or die.

Or how about...the grey marketer is making a profit and none of the money from the sale is going to support the Canon service centres within that country. And in future the people who buy them wonder why the Canon service centres have all shut because there is no cashflow to support them.
Here in UK, some grey importers will give a Canon standard warranty but what they do is work on the theory that the cameras so rarely go wrong that for the few that do have a fault they can afford to pay the repair costs at a Canon service centre and still make a profit.
So when you get more people buying grey imports, and more people getting pissed when they either have no effective warranty or have to return the item to Hong Kong to get it fixed because the warranty only applies to where they bought it. Don't forget that many grey importers (not all) are little more than maildrops with the item actually coming in direct from Asia and if you read the T&Cs the purchaser is actually acting as importer with liability for all taxes and duties and the only warranty is in the country from which it was despatched.

 

[AvTvM]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

It does not matter, whether a global company like Canon has 1, 10, 1000 or 10000 legal entities around the world. If oh so poor Canon USA or Canon Europe has to repair a camera not sold by them, then Canon should internally cross-charge that cost. Problem solved. Those corporations are using the multiple entity structure and creative accointing all the time to maximize profits and minimize taxes via all sorts if transfer price shenanigans.

They shall handle all that crap internally, rather than make things difficult for their own customers and/or sue direct importers - as long as these don't sell counterfeit products (or swap out batteries against even cheaper china stuff).

 

[PureClassA]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

Good Lord, there is some nonsense on here. Canon is a business. Retailers that sell their products are businesses. These businesses are FREE to choose whether or not to engage in business with each other. In so doing, Canon has a contract. If you want to be an authorized retailer for their products, you will abide by Canon's rules. Period. If you don't, any products you sell may not have Canon warranties honored. Period. It's very simple. Canon is honoring their retailers who play by the rules. If Canon honored every piece of gear sold on the grey and black markets, then what possible incentive do the BH, Adorama, and Amazons of the world have? Canon has the best service in the world of ANY camera company because they run a tight ship and HONOR their promises and contracts.

When you knowingly purchase a product from a retailer who is NOT authorized by the manufacturer, you are voluntarily taking the risk that any problems may not be honored under normal warranty. When I bought a 5D3 from GetItDigital I was given the option to buy a Grey Market product for 10% less than an official Canon USA product. I opted for the later. Had I opted the former and had a problem, that was a gamble I would have lost. The end.

Statements such as "Canon is just greedy" or "Canon should just do whatever I want, because "ME"" is the baseless silly argument of petulant, fist-banging children. I'm a father of three, so I defy anyone to argue to the point. I deal with the same arguments at home everyday. If you don't like Canon USA official pricing, by all means, vote with your wallet and go buy something else. No one flipping cares. Otherwise, nut up and be an adult and take responsibility for your own purchasing decisions.

 

[dak723]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

Good Lord, there is some nonsense on here. Canon is a business. Retailers that sell their products are businesses. These businesses are FREE to choose whether or not to engage in business with each other. In so doing, Canon has a contract. If you want to be an authorized retailer for their products, you will abide by Canon's rules. Period. If you don't, any products you sell may not have Canon warranties honored. Period. It's very simple. Canon is honoring their retailers who play by the rules. If Canon honored every piece of gear sold on the grey and black markets, then what possible incentive do the BH, Adorama, and Amazons of the world have? Canon has the best service in the world of ANY camera company because they run a tight ship and HONOR their promises and contracts.

When you knowingly purchase a product from a retailer who is NOT authorized by the manufacturer, you are voluntarily taking the risk that any problems may not be honored under normal warranty. When I bought a 5D3 from GetItDigital I was given the option to buy a Grey Market product for 10% less than an official Canon USA product. I opted for the later. Had I opted the former and had a problem, that was a gamble I would have lost. The end.

Statements such as "Canon is just greedy" or "Canon should just do whatever I want, because "ME"" is the baseless silly argument of petulant, fist-banging children. I'm a father of three, so I defy anyone to argue to the point. I deal with the same arguments at home everyday. If you don't like Canon USA official pricing, by all means, vote with your wallet and go buy something else. No one flipping cares. Otherwise, nut up and be an adult and take responsibility for your own purchasing decisions.

Absolutely correct. If all you care about is yourself, then, of course, support grey market and curse Canon. If you care about legitimate camera stores surviving, then you should be all for these lawsuits. Pretty soon all we'll have left is shady, unreliable internet outlets. But as long as you saved a couple hundred bucks, why should you care?

 

[RayValdez360]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

How is he a hypocrite. He is just calling out Canon for their BS on a "pro-canon" site. He should be considered a hero for the truthful comment. Do you even know what a hypocrite is? You really are are a sheep.

Oh please! Give me a break. How is MAP pricing unethical? It's not unique to either Canon nor the camera business. It's simply a way for manufacturers to protect their authorized dealer base. You may not like it, but don't pretend it is somehow unethical.

And, Canon Rumors Guy, it's a bit hypocritical for you, since you take money from these grey market advertisers, to pass judgment on this lawsuit.



I'll leave it for the courts to sort it out. I'd suggest all the other bar stool lawyers on this site do the same.

I am concerned about the allegation the sellers are replacing the serial number plates. If so, it seems like that might be a criminal matter (fraud).

I do find it interesting that Canon is claiming that the grey market dealers are costing them money because Canon voluntarily provides warranty and repair service on these products. The obvious solution there is simply not to offer repair for these products. That would probably shut down the grey market sellers rather quickly.

And, it also seems that if Canon Asia (or whatever they are called) simply refused to sell to any dealers in Asia caught shipping product overseas, it could also solve the problem.

I do wonder what the motivation is for seeking a court-ordered solution, when they have the ability to address the problem more effectively in other ways. I wonder if they simply want to get the rules regarding MAP better defined, so they can tell their dealers that they took it to court.

It will be interesting to watch.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

...
Absolutely correct. If all you care about is yourself, then, of course, support grey market and curse Canon. If you care about legitimate camera stores surviving, then you should be all for these lawsuits. Pretty soon all we'll have left is shady, unreliable internet outlets. But as long as you saved a couple hundred bucks, why should you care?

Sorry but that boat has already sailed. Bricks and mortar stores everywhere have already been shut down by Internet sales from Amazon, Adorama, B&H, etc. Or do you mean that local stores closing because they cannot compete with the online presence of those companies is ok?

Simply put, the public at large wants the best price possible and they don't care a flying f*** if it happens to be at cost of local business.

That is the case for most products and its why Amazon has become so huge, and other B&M stores are trying to figure out how to get on the bandwagon. That said, I do support my small local camera store, I've bought high end cameras and lenses from them, but if its something they don't carry, one of the big online stores will get the order.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

...
Absolutely correct. If all you care about is yourself, then, of course, support grey market and curse Canon. If you care about legitimate camera stores surviving, then you should be all for these lawsuits. Pretty soon all we'll have left is shady, unreliable internet outlets. But as long as you saved a couple hundred bucks, why should you care?

Sorry but that boat has already sailed. Bricks and mortar stores everywhere have already been shut down by Internet sales from Amazon, Adorama, B&H, etc. Or do you mean that local stores closing because they cannot compete with the online presence of those companies is ok?

Simply put, the public at large wants the best price possible and they don't care a flying f*** if it happens to be at cost of local business.

That is the case for most products and its why Amazon has become so huge, and other B&M stores are trying to figure out how to get on the bandwagon. That said, I do support my small local camera store, I've bought high end cameras and lenses from them, but if its something they don't carry, one of the big online stores will get the order.

We have a nearby car dealer (Dave Smith) who sells over the internet. They are located in a small wide place in the road called Kellogg Idaho, have more cars on their lots than people living in the town, and have become a huge dealer, they claim the largest sell in the world for some brands. People fly out from all over the country to pickup their new car.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Smith_Motors

 

[PureClassA]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

Dilbert, it's not illegal. It's most assuredly NOT the same as "price-fixing" which involves multiple competitors in the same industry. I'm not sure where you are, so to be clear I'm talking about American contract law and the free markets.

Canon is ONE company. They can, if they please, set retail pricing and MMAP if they wish. In a free market, if you don't like Canon pricing and that is of paramount importance to you, by all means, shop Nikon. Shop Sony. Shop Fisher-Price. BUY GREY MARKET (with possible strings attached). We don't care. But Moaning about a bunch of legal statue (collusion and price fixing) that isn't germane to the issue doesn't bolster your argument.

Here's a few other well known and popular MMAP subject items in the marketplace. Video games and video game systems. The entire Disney movie library. Motor Vehicles. (and Tons of other things)

Why do companies do it? They do it because they have a product that is highly in demand and also to protect the integrity of their authorized dealers be they local brick and mortar store or an online giant.

Again, the choice is simple. You may have a product bought from an authorized dealer in which the warranty will be honored for a certain price. Or, you may purchase the same product on the Grey market for a lesser price but perhaps forego any ability to have it serviced under a warranty. That's it. Whining that you can't have both and that it isn't fair and Canon is just a big stupid meanie-head is not a reasonable or mature thought process.

THAT BEING SAID, I personally felt like GetItDigital made it very clear to me as a buyer that what I initially bought on eBay was indeed a grey market piece and that the warranty was a gamble. I accepted that as a buyer. I'm a big boy and knew what I was doing. Then, they offered to upgrade the purchase for about $150 to a Canon USA product if I wanted to be certain about the warranty. Again, I made a conscious buyer's decision to spend the minor extra sum to feel completely confident.

I'll need to read more of specifically what Canon is suing for. Obviously GetItDigital is using auction site to move product and not a standard, private commercial online storefront (like BH or Adorama). This will be interesting. I certainly don't believe GID was in any way acting deceptively about what they were selling.

 

[mycanonphotos]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

I have purchased a 5D3, a 7D2 along with a 600EX-RT from Get it Digital. All were legit. Registered Ser#'s at Canon the same day. I think Canon is getting blow back from their big retailers on how the lower level retailers are selling "gray market". This is all marketing...that's all it is... If company's are selling counterfeit products then shame on them but for Canon to go after these on line retailers who are selling its products at a lower rate is BS...

Ditto. I agree. I've purchased a LOT of Canon gear since 2009 from a variety of sellers. From all over. New and used. Online and local. Some from eBay/Craigslist, some from my local authorized shop, some from online authorized shops (BH, Adorama, Amazon, etc) and some from the uber-cool (LOL) ultra-discount grey market sellers named in the suits: GetItDigital, et al. Maybe I've just been super lucky but I haven't been cheated once and I've experienced good customer service from all of them whenever I had a problem. Some I have used for years. Some I sold immediately. I like to support my local shop but I also like to get a killer deal sometimes too. I try to balance it out.

Ever since I was a teenager buying car stereos, etc I have wondered why the heck off shore electronics companies worked so hard to "fix" and control prices instead of just selling everything at a wholesale price and let the market do whatever they like. If everything is the same price, the buyer buys from whoever they like the best or provides the best service, etc. Simple as that.

As for all the "violations" listed, I would support Canon when it comes to protecting their quality reputation with regard to counterfeit anything. Why a retailer would want to waste time with doing that and risk getting a reputation for selling that kind of crap I don't understand. Pulling stunts like that is really stupid and short sighted.

IMHO, I think Canon should "focus" on producing great products and let the market do whatever it likes to get them to the buyer. Support the products and not worry about the rest. The whole "authorized retailer" model is a leftover from decades ago before the Internet, Canon Rumors, Global Trade and the ability to expose and share reviews instantaneously about crooked rip-off sellers that hid behind mail order deliveries and phone orders. The "authorized retailer" programs are also a way for Canon to encourage/force the retailer to buy a certain amount/mix of inventory in order to keep that status symbol on their door.

I think another strong point is that technology changes so fast we all as consumers want the best price on our products. I for sure don't buy right after a new product comes out till there is some kind of drop in price...The latest lens product I purchased was via a street price at canonpricewatch for the 100-400 IS II and was very happy with the outcome, (store in Canada) I'm going to take a hit selling my 5D3's after the 5D4 comes out...I can only wait till the price drops $500-700 from retail...people who pay higher prices can go right ahead and burn their cash its all right w me... I see some crazy stuff with rebate switches all the time...for example; people selling their used 70-200 IS II as a new one because they just ordered a new one with a rebate or a refurbished one etc...but just switching out the box...even if they make 100-200 bucks they will do it...You can tell if you follow the trend..."shipping in box without bar code because it was sent in for rebate or similar"...

My friend will go into a major camera store here in the LA area, Sammys...and shell out some major cash for off the shelf body's and lenses..I keep telling him to browse around on line but he just doesn't have the time to research or follow more closely...

Looking at the refurbished sales at Canon makes me sick....some prices are just not good enough with sales tax included...come on, you can buy a new product for just a little more from an out of state retailer and get free shipping and sales tax... Same for used products such as lens rentals lens authority site and borrow lenses.com...Really?... I have come close a few times to pulling the trigger on a few of those but the prices are not good enough for me to part with my $$...

I have been real happy with my latest purchases via "street prices" and from gray market ebay sales... so kudos to the company's looking out for ways to make a buck or two with out breaking the bank of its customers....

Another thing I feel strongly about is the serial numbering tampering...I think that consumers are doing this and pointing fingers to cause issues...its not in a company's best interest to do such things. I received an up sell call but it was just a sales pitch while verifying the shipping address for my 7DII...

Talking about car stereos bring back memories...I too am a big audiophile...ALWAYS purchased Rockford Fosgate amps and speakers form non authorized dealers for a fraction of the retail MSRP costs....

A canon camera is a canon camera that was built on an assembly line and that camera should have a warranty regardless of how it was sold...

 

[sunnyVan]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

I have purchased a 5D3, a 7D2 along with a 600EX-RT from Get it Digital. All were legit. Registered Ser#'s at Canon the same day. I think Canon is getting blow back from their big retailers on how the lower level retailers are selling "gray market". This is all marketing...that's all it is... If company's are selling counterfeit products then shame on them but for Canon to go after these on line retailers who are selling its products at a lower rate is BS...

Ditto. I agree. I've purchased a LOT of Canon gear since 2009 from a variety of sellers. From all over. New and used. Online and local. Some from eBay/Craigslist, some from my local authorized shop, some from online authorized shops (BH, Adorama, Amazon, etc) and some from the uber-cool (LOL) ultra-discount grey market sellers named in the suits: GetItDigital, et al. Maybe I've just been super lucky but I haven't been cheated once and I've experienced good customer service from all of them whenever I had a problem. Some I have used for years. Some I sold immediately. I like to support my local shop but I also like to get a killer deal sometimes too. I try to balance it out.

Ever since I was a teenager buying car stereos, etc I have wondered why the heck off shore electronics companies worked so hard to "fix" and control prices instead of just selling everything at a wholesale price and let the market do whatever they like. If everything is the same price, the buyer buys from whoever they like the best or provides the best service, etc. Simple as that.

As for all the "violations" listed, I would support Canon when it comes to protecting their quality reputation with regard to counterfeit anything. Why a retailer would want to waste time with doing that and risk getting a reputation for selling that kind of crap I don't understand. Pulling stunts like that is really stupid and short sighted.

IMHO, I think Canon should "focus" on producing great products and let the market do whatever it likes to get them to the buyer. Support the products and not worry about the rest. The whole "authorized retailer" model is a leftover from decades ago before the Internet, Canon Rumors, Global Trade and the ability to expose and share reviews instantaneously about crooked rip-off sellers that hid behind mail order deliveries and phone orders. The "authorized retailer" programs are also a way for Canon to encourage/force the retailer to buy a certain amount/mix of inventory in order to keep that status symbol on their door.

I think another strong point is that technology changes so fast we all as consumers want the best price on our products. I for sure don't buy right after a new product comes out till there is some kind of drop in price...The latest lens product I purchased was via a street price at canonpricewatch for the 100-400 IS II and was very happy with the outcome, (camera Canada) I'm going to take a hit selling my 5D3's after the 5D4 comes out...I can only wait till the price drops $500-700 from retail...people who pay higher prices can go right ahead and burn their cash its all right w me... I see some crazy stuff with rebate switches all the time...for example; people selling their used 70-200 IS II as a new one because they just ordered a new one with a rebate or a refurbished one etc...but just switching out the box...even if they make 100-200 bucks they will do it...You can tell if you follow the trend..."shipping in box without bar code because it was sent in for rebate or similar"...

My friend will go into a major camera store here in the LA area, Sammys...and shell out some major cash for off the shelf body's and lenses..I keep telling him to browse around on line but he just doesn't have the time to research or follow more closely...

Looking at the refurbished sales at Canon makes me sick....some prices are just not good enough with sales tax included...come on, you can buy a new product for just a little more from an out of state retailer and get free shipping and sales tax... Same for used products such as lens rentals lens authority site and borrow lenses.com...Really?... I have come close a few times to pulling the trigger on a few of those but the prices are not good enough for me to part with my $$...

I have been real happy with my latest purchases via "street prices" and from gray market ebay sales... so kudos to the company's looking out for ways to make a buck or two with out breaking the bank of its customers....

Another thing I feel strongly about is the serial numbering tampering...I think that consumers are doing this and pointing fingers to cause issues...its not in a company's best interest to do such things. I received an up sell call but it was just a sales pitch while verifying the shipping address for my 7DII...

Talking about car stereos bring back memories...I too am a big audiophile...ALWAYS purchased Rockford Fosgate amps and speakers form non authorized dealers for a fraction of the retail MSRP costs....

A canon camera is a canon camera that was built on an assembly line and that camera should have a warranty regardless of how it was sold...

When you buy through street price program you're not supposed to reveal the actual name of the store. I wouldn't want this program shut down.

 

[scyrene]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

Good Lord, there is some nonsense on here. Canon is a business. Retailers that sell their products are businesses. These businesses are FREE to choose whether or not to engage in business with each other. In so doing, Canon has a contract. If you want to be an authorized retailer for their products, you will abide by Canon's rules. Period. If you don't, any products you sell may not have Canon warranties honored. Period. It's very simple. Canon is honoring their retailers who play by the rules. If Canon honored every piece of gear sold on the grey and black markets, then what possible incentive do the BH, Adorama, and Amazons of the world have? Canon has the best service in the world of ANY camera company because they run a tight ship and HONOR their promises and contracts.

When you knowingly purchase a product from a retailer who is NOT authorized by the manufacturer, you are voluntarily taking the risk that any problems may not be honored under normal warranty. When I bought a 5D3 from GetItDigital I was given the option to buy a Grey Market product for 10% less than an official Canon USA product. I opted for the later. Had I opted the former and had a problem, that was a gamble I would have lost. The end.

Statements such as "Canon is just greedy" or "Canon should just do whatever I want, because "ME"" is the baseless silly argument of petulant, fist-banging children. I'm a father of three, so I defy anyone to argue to the point. I deal with the same arguments at home everyday. If you don't like Canon USA official pricing, by all means, vote with your wallet and go buy something else. No one flipping cares. Otherwise, nut up and be an adult and take responsibility for your own purchasing decisions.

I don't know if that's the rhetoric I'm seeing here. I think people are worried that Canon wants to eradicate the grey market (I take it from some comments that in fact they're not attempting anything so drastic, nor would they succeed, but that's still what people fear). If those people bought something else, incidentally, Canon would lose money - if we're talking about legitimate Canon goods, even grey market ones are a sale for the company overall. Their margins might be lower, but it's better than nothing.

I don't know about the USA, but in general the idea that a product made by a company is only their responsibility (as far as it ever is) if you paid more than a certain amount, or bought it from a particular place is odd, however normal or legal. But anyhow, on warranties I'm sure you're right; they aren't something I know about, nor have I ever made use of one - isn't that what home insurance etc is for? And repairs/support through CPS - when I joined, I just had to provide serial numbers, not demonstrate where I'd bought them from. Maybe it's different elsewhere (also I've never needed their support so is there another level of proof required for, say repairs?).

If all you care about is yourself, then, of course, support grey market and curse Canon. If you care about legitimate camera stores surviving, then you should be all for these lawsuits. Pretty soon all we'll have left is shady, unreliable internet outlets. But as long as you saved a couple hundred bucks, why should you care?

Your assertion that grey market and internet sellers are all shady/unreliable is false. All businesses should abide by the law (bigger ones seem more likely to resort to dodgy practises than smaller ones fact, judging by the slew of tax avoidance and accounting scams that have been reported in recent years). Any sellers of counterfeit goods should be prosecuted and shut down. But most of this stuff is real, just bought in Asia at a lower price, then imported. Beyond that why *should* I care if one goes out of business if they can't compete with another? And when we're talking about camera gear, it's a lot more than 'a couple of hundred bucks[']' saving.

 

[mycanonphotos]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

I feel good going into a typical camera store knowing that I can one up much of their sales pitches by my on-line knowledge of where and how I can acquire equipment at lower prices..If by all means they have something on sale and are willing to match prices or even come close I will entertain the idea of giving them my business... I HATE walking out of a store paying full price for an item I know I could have gotten a better price on...#1 I don't want or need it that bad to pay that price. #2 others are and I respect that so let them spend their cash... people sometimes need to look at prices and items by the hours or work required to attain that money for said purchases..

There are MILLIONS of people out there who know nothing about on-line retailers and how much detail the previous 80+ posts go into.... Everyone has an opinion and that will never change.
Let's not forget that ethics in this case is a point of view held in the eye of the beholder who has the money.

Am I going to continue purchasing gray market items HELL YES! Think about it... do you plan on keeping a camera body for longer than two years (no) because a new one will be out by then and you will be planning on selling the other one and acquiring a new one...if you take care of your equipment, keep it clean with OEM boxes, parts etc...your sales price goes up for ebay sales...and the people purchasing it will know its out of warranty so who cares if its gray market...most people looking at it wont even consider it...

If something goes wrong with any of my equipment I'll send it in for repair, simple as that..all my stuff is registered at Canon...

 

[StudentOfLight]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

This is a problem of globalization. There are differences in sales, marketing, distribution and technical costs from region to region. Does SP&A in the US cost the same as SP&A in Malaysia for example? Does technical staff cost the same in Europe as in South Africa? The answer if you were unsure is no, they cost more in first world countries because salaries are higher in first world countries. Sales need to sustain these higher salaries.

In order for a business to budget effectively for sales, marketing, distribution, technical support etc... activities in a particular region they need to forecast sales per region and set pricing accordingly. If sales are leaking into a region from unauthorized channels then they are not paying for the sustainability of the required support and services in a region, some of which is needed to ensure products meet local government regulations (e.g. labels, safety regulations, environmental policies etc...)

 

[joejohnbear]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

This is a problem of globalization. There are differences in sales, marketing, distribution and technical costs from region to region. Does SP&A in the US cost the same as SP&A in Malaysia for example? Does technical staff cost the same in Europe as in South Africa? The answer if you were unsure is no they cost more in first world countries because salaries are higher in first world countries. Sales need to sustain these higher salaries.

In order for a business to budget effectively for sales, marketing, distribution, technical support etc... activities in a particular region they need to forecast sales per region and set pricing accordingly. If sales are leaking into a region from unauthorized channels then they are not paying for the sustainability of the required support and services in a region, some of which is needed to ensure products meet local government regulations (e.g. labels, safety regulations, environmental policies etc...)

Add to that currency fluctuations, no?

 

[StudentOfLight]

Re: Canon USA Inc, Suing Get It Digital LLC & Others Over Grey Market Sales

This is a problem of globalization. There are differences in sales, marketing, distribution and technical costs from region to region. Does SP&A in the US cost the same as SP&A in Malaysia for example? Does technical staff cost the same in Europe as in South Africa? The answer if you were unsure is no they cost more in first world countries because salaries are higher in first world countries. Sales need to sustain these higher salaries.

In order for a business to budget effectively for sales, marketing, distribution, technical support etc... activities in a particular region they need to forecast sales per region and set pricing accordingly. If sales are leaking into a region from unauthorized channels then they are not paying for the sustainability of the required support and services in a region, some of which is needed to ensure products meet local government regulations (e.g. labels, safety regulations, environmental policies etc...)

Add to that currency fluctuations, no?

Yes definitely. Here in South Africa our local currency has lost more than 25% of it's value to the USD in the past 12 months. Our prices went up as a result.