DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

[RGF]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

At the risk of starting another holy war (the first being Canon vs Nikon), I wonder if Canon will ever see the light and make DPP and EOS Util work on Macs

Never mind - I found the Mac download. My Bad :

 

[jrista]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Nice of Canon to hobble the actual utility of their downloads. Why did I bother paying for a 7D?

Maybe some hacking is in order?

Are you seriously complaining about buying a camera that was released YEARS ago, Canon's oldest body ever, in fact, because it doesn't work with a JUST NOW newly released version of DPP? Seriously?

This is just the first release of DPP 4.0. The way Canon's message is worded, the limitations on the compatible bodies is just "at launch", indicating that support for additional bodies will be rolled out as they have the time to implement support for each one. No one really, truly thinks Canon is dumb enough to alienate their customers like that. I completely expect Canon to fully support their entire current camera body lineup with DPP 4.x eventually.

Every time a new camera body is released (from most manufacturers), changes to metadata and sometimes RAW pixel data storage structure, have to be changed. Some of those changes are dictated by the choices in hardware design (i.e. how many masked off and/or disabled border pixels the sensor has, which is not the same from sensor to sensor.) It would be a LOT of work to implement the necessary handlers for each and every variant of the CR2 raw file format. It is therefor no surprise they STARTED somewhere (i.e. their full frame cameras, of which there are few, and for which there are likely to be more similarities than differences.)

 

[Pixel]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

This download is clearly labeled as "preview." Which in my mind says it's a little further along than beta.
The full release is set for the end of the month. Can we stop the Canon bashing until it's officially released?

 

[Marsu42]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

The full release is set for the end of the month. Can we stop the Canon bashing until it's officially released?

Most bashing seems to be over the unsupported older (or 70d: cheaper) camera models, and that won't change with the final version.

But if you'd like on the positive side: I've tried EOS Utility 3, at last managed to connect my 6d via wifi to my Windows laptop (using VirtualRouter to create an AP) and have to say the remote control and usability is great. Now if only the 6d had a better LV af like the 70d, this could even be fun. And if I'd have remote lens. zoom. And a robotic gear to aim the lens

 

[memoriaphoto]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Nice of Canon to hobble the actual utility of their downloads. Why did I bother paying for a 7D?

Maybe some hacking is in order?

No one really, truly thinks Canon is dumb enough to alienate their customers like that. I completely expect Canon to fully support their entire current camera body lineup with DPP 4.x eventually.

Well, in that case they are sure dumb enough not to rephrase the pressrelease by using the simple words:

"At launch only XX models will be supported, however all existing canon models will be supported in an upcoming release"

That would instantly kill all speculations and bad mouthing...

 

[johnhenry]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Nice of Canon to hobble the actual utility of their downloads. Why did I bother paying for a 7D?

Maybe some hacking is in order?

Are you seriously complaining about buying a camera that was released YEARS ago, Canon's oldest body ever, in fact, because it doesn't work with a JUST NOW newly released version of DPP? Seriously?

Their "strategy", if this word would actually apply to something so poorly conceived, strikes my as being somewhat disingenuous. If Microsoft made a major upgrade to Windows 8.1 but said it wouldn't work on computer more than 3 years old, would there be an outcry?

As a former computer programmer, I do understand some of the complexities that have to be dealt with when writing code that works across a wide base of hardware. That's why there exists an "abstraction layer" between most hardware and the software that applies to it.

 

[Marsu42]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

No one really, truly thinks Canon is dumb enough to alienate their customers like that. I completely expect Canon to fully support their entire current camera body lineup with DPP 4.x eventually.

As in "current" camera line up, or including the 10d which is in dpp3? You've got me there, I believe they might make a cut somewhere sometime. Imho it depends on the camera generation, once they add one 18mp crop camera it's likely they've covered them all.

 

[jrista]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

No one really, truly thinks Canon is dumb enough to alienate their customers like that. I completely expect Canon to fully support their entire current camera body lineup with DPP 4.x eventually.

As in "current" camera line up, or including the 10d which is in dpp3? You've got me there, I believe they might make a cut somewhere sometime. Imho it depends on the camera generation, once they add one 18mp crop camera it's likely they've covered them all.

I disagree about the 18mp crop cameras. Almost every new generation of Canon cameras has companion changes to the CR2 RAW file format. Most of the time, it's in the metadata area, specifically in the manufacturer's custom data block, but the changes are quite often breaking. Canon does not seem concerned about maintaining backwards compatibility in their custom metadata section in EXIF, and data block sizes change, some values are completely removed, etc.

Sometimes the border masking/calibration pixels change, even though the sensor itself is still the same (i.e. the 18mp APS-C).

There is ZERO guarantee that, even if Canon uses the same sensor, that the format of the CR2 RAW file will remain the same.

BTW, I speak from first hand experience here. I wrote a metadata extractor for a personal web site I've been trying to build for myself (still pending, other jobs keep consuming all my time, and the little bits if free time I have, I spend on my photography). I spent a month digging into the specs for Canon's RAW files, for their custom EXIF metadata, etc. I spent another month writing the extractor in C#, and augmenting existing javascript extractors (still an ongoing project). I was surprised by how often Canon's data changes from version to version of a CR2 raw file. Once I understood that, it made total sense why Adobe has such a hard time keeping ACR/LR up to date and working with every new model camera that Canon releases...they have to figure out what changed (which is NOT well documented, sometimes not documented at all, in Canon's stuff...you basically have to download Canons example source code and run a diff on it with prior versions). Once you know what changed, then you have to implement the necessary changes in your own code to detect the CR2 version and route it through the right path in your code to handle and render it properly.

 

[Marsu42]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

I was surprised by how often Canon's data changes from version to version of a CR2 raw file. Once I understood that, it made total sense why Adobe has such a hard time keeping ACR/LR up to date and working with every new model camera that Canon releases...they have to figure out what changed (which is NOT well documented, sometimes not documented at all, in Canon's stuff.

Interesting to know - and it is about the same on the hardware side, I know from ML: the cameras seem to be the same from the outside (digic4, 18mp sensor) but there are lots of small differences and changes that break simpe copy+past compatibility across all models.

Btw I also recently had a deeper look at the CR2 metadata as I wrote a watermarking and metatdata filter script (what to keep, what to delete for what purpose)... exiftool does an amazing job at decoding even the more obscure Canon tags, but I wouldn't want to imagine how long it took to get all this exif/iptc/xmp/makernotes stuff in order.

 

[jrista]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

I was surprised by how often Canon's data changes from version to version of a CR2 raw file. Once I understood that, it made total sense why Adobe has such a hard time keeping ACR/LR up to date and working with every new model camera that Canon releases...they have to figure out what changed (which is NOT well documented, sometimes not documented at all, in Canon's stuff.

Interesting to know - and it is about the same on the hardware side, I know from ML: the cameras seem to be the same from the outside (digic4, 18mp sensor) but there are lots of small differences and changes that break simpe copy+past compatibility across all models.

Btw I also recently had a deeper look at the CR2 metadata as I wrote a watermarking and metatdata filter script (what to keep, what to delete for what purpose)... exiftool does an amazing job at decoding even the more obscure Canon tags, but I wouldn't want to imagine how long it took to get all this exif/iptc/xmp/makernotes stuff in order.

Yeah, it's kind of a mess. It really isn't any better for other manufacturers. Some of them have even more radical generational changes in their metadata than Canon does.

 

[tgara]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Completely useless software. How does one use it? All I see are tiny thumbnails of my raw images, and I cannot edit them Help? A simple tutorial anyone?

 

[Deleted member 7828]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Trying out DPP 4 in a real-world setting after shooting a signing with my 6D this evening.

I like many of the extra features but there are a few somewhat annoying kinks they still need to work out...and it would be nice to edit crop camera images as well (from my 7D, SL1 and M) instead of being limited to just FF.

 

[thebowtie]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Completely useless software. How does one use it? All I see are tiny thumbnails of my raw images, and I cannot edit them Help? A simple tutorial anyone?

Hi tgara
Chances are, you are looking at images that are not created on a 5DII or 1DX, or any of the other qualified cameras that this software is specifically targeted at. From what I see, that's what this software release is specifically targeted at.
My 5DIII raw files work just fine. My 50D ones don't.
Just as advertised.

Cheers

 

[tgara]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Completely useless software. How does one use it? All I see are tiny thumbnails of my raw images, and I cannot edit them Help? A simple tutorial anyone?

Hi tgara
Chances are, you are looking at images that are not created on a 5DII or 1DX, or any of the other qualified cameras that this software is specifically targeted at. From what I see, that's what this software release is specifically targeted at.
My 5DIII raw files work just fine. My 50D ones don't.
Just as advertised.

Cheers

Yep, I'm a dope. I was trying to look at RAWs made with my SL1, and of course the do not show. RAWs from my 5D3 work fine.

 

[Marsu42]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Yeah, it's kind of a mess. It really isn't any better for other manufacturers. Some of them have even more radical generational changes in their metadata than Canon does.

It would be interesting to know if the Canon guys are as confused as the rest of the world is by now, or if they've got top-notch internal docs and samples that make everything easy to do.

For example I know the Magic Lantern devs recently failed to figure out Canon's awb algorithm - it's a complete mystery what all these color channel tags exactly mean and how they end up in a temperature and tint value (they need it for the dual_iso module). Who knows how different that is between camera models. First they tried to compute the awb from the tags which did very seldom work, now they compute it from the ground up looking at the pixels which often also doesn't work :-\

 

[winglet]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Hmmm. I ran into a similar issue with my 5D MkII back in the day when Aperture didn't yet support the RAW format in that body. I switched to LR and never looked back. Now it appears that if I try to use the new DPP it will work with my 1DX files and not my 5DII? Deja vu. And no, I will not run out and buy a 5DIII or another 1DX just to use some software I only go to sporadically.

Can anyone confirm that versions 3 and 4 will play nice together on the same computer? I don't have the time to fiddle around with such nonsense right now, maybe someone else has already tried?

Another swing and a miss, Canon. Wish it wasn't so predictable.

 

[thebowtie]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Can anyone confirm that versions 3 and 4 will play nice together on the same computer? I don't have the time to fiddle around with such nonsense right now, maybe someone else has already tried?

Hi Winglet,
Yes, I can confirm that on my computer (Windows 7x64) both 3.x and 4 work fine side-by-side.
HOWEVER, the metatdata that is stored in/with 3.x-treated RAW files is invisible to 4.0.

To your other point of 'why only recent cameras?' - I speculate the reason is that Canon have sensed the wrath of the photographic community's response to Adobe CC, and probably tried to provide a 'LR-Lite' kind of product for free - which depends on later (64-bit) hardware and latest camera's embedded metadata.
Maybe to get customers to love Canon a bit more - and try to regain some kind of loyalty.
Who really knows?
Just speculating of course.

Cheers

 

[JonAustin]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Some of the arguments here supporting Canon's decision to abandon older camera models in DPP 4 are just nonsense.

The analogy comparing the break with older camera models to Microsoft Windows 8.1's incompatibility with older PCs is absurd. If MS were to announce that Windows 8.1 wouldn't read RTF documents produced by older versions of WordPad, for example, then it might be a valid comparison.

There is no technical reason why Canon can't code DPP 4 to read every version of RAW file produced by every digital camera -- both SLR and P&S -- that Canon has ever produced. There may be marketing reasons (and I'm willing to bet that this is a purely marketing decision), and possibly financial reasons (but again, probably driven by Marketing).

 

[mackguyver]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Older camera support aside, I downloaded these from Canon USA late last night and found a few interesting things. First of all, it makes you install EOS Utility 2 (which I uninstalled) and it also installs an application called Canon Lens Registration or something like that. It was too late for me to fool around with it, but I wonder what that application does. Has anyone tried it?

 

[winglet]

Re: DPP 4.0 & EOS Utility 3.0 Available for Download

Thanks thebowtie,

I'll give it a shot on my Mac when I get a few minutes free. I'm always curious to try new software but I hate running multiple versions of the same thing...