Hint about what to expect from Canon's step into full frame mirrorless?

[Durf]

So far no one, upon seeing pictures I've made with my 6D2, has said to me how much better the picture would have been if I had had an on-chip ADC.

I consider people who bought the 6D2 basically n00bs who have little idea of what sensor and camera performance to expect in 2018.

You've been trolling this forum and some of its members for a while now and it's posts like this that shows and proves your true character.

Trolling is one thing, but insulting the intelligence of others because of the camera model they may own is beyond childish.

Your presence here and your posts are getting rather stale and boring.

 

[zim]

There seems to be an ever ending production line of AvTvMs

 

[unfocused]

There seems to be an ever ending production line of AvTvMs

Fullstop and AvTvM are the same person. He's been regenerated in a new form.

 

[neuroanatomist]

btw: fact based criticism is never whining.

True. Maybe you should considering actually offering fact-based criticism, instead of your typical posts based on your opinions and fabricated information.

 

[3kramd5]

btw: fact based criticism is never whining.

At the risk of getting another warning, that is not what you are doing here. You're making assertions which aren't compatible with how product design works at big companies and then complaining about those assertions.

What's fascinating is you offered up a reasonable theory about why they used the battery they did back in post 105:

"we have this warehouse full of them old design..."

but then seem to completely forget about it in post 107, coming back instead to the unlikely assertion:

yes, sure, a few cents cost difference between LP-E12 and LP-E17 are what make a 599,- camera economically feasible or not.

A much more realistic explanation for that battery decision is Canon "marketing-nerfing".

It's an entirely reasonable theory that they have existing inventory; they naturally build more batteries than bodies. If they do have inventory, a battery which is essentially free (already paid for and about to be written off) is a compelling option compared with one they have to manufacture. The difference isn't a few cents, it's perhaps tens of dollars, potentially a notable contributor to recurring costs (by way of the bill of materials).

 

[dak723]

So far no one, upon seeing pictures I've made with my 6D2, has said to me how much better the picture would have been if I had had an on-chip ADC.

I consider people who bought the 6D2 basically n00bs who have little idea of what sensor and camera performance to expect in 2018.

And I would consider people who don't understand that an actual photo from the 6D II will be virtually identical to any photo taken with any other FF camera on the market today to be complete idiots. Go read your spec sheets and ignore reality!

 

[Deleted member 379512]

So far no one, upon seeing pictures I've made with my 6D2, has said to me how much better the picture would have been if I had had an on-chip ADC.

I consider people who bought the 6D2 basically n00bs who have little idea of what sensor and camera performance to expect in 2018.

And I would consider people who don't understand that an actual photo from the 6D II will be virtually identical to any photo taken with any other FF camera on the market today to be complete idiots. Go read your spec sheets and ignore reality!

Playing devils advocate here, but what does that mean for the Canon colour then? That it's actually virtually identical to the other brand colours?

 

[ahsanford]

Playing devils advocate here, but what did that mean for the Canon colour then? That it's actually virtually identical to the other brand colours?

Not sure I follow you. Are you saying that moving from off-chip to on-chip like the competition mangles the color rendition somehow?

(I'm guessing I'm misunderstanding you, b/c were that so, one might imagine we'd have a huge pile of complaints from 1DX2, 5D4, 80D, etc. owners, wouldn't we?)

- A

 

[3kramd5]

So far no one, upon seeing pictures I've made with my 6D2, has said to me how much better the picture would have been if I had had an on-chip ADC.

I consider people who bought the 6D2 basically n00bs who have little idea of what sensor and camera performance to expect in 2018.

And I would consider people who don't understand that an actual photo from the 6D II will be virtually identical to any photo taken with any other FF camera on the market today to be complete idiots. Go read your spec sheets and ignore reality!

Playing devils advocate here, but what does that mean for the Canon colour then? That it's actually virtually identical to the other brand colours?

With calibrated workflow, yes, output is pretty much indistinguishable. When I got my 1Dx and before I sold my a7r2, I took some shots using the same lenses in the same light on both bodies, including my color checker passport in the scene. After profiling, normalizing exposure, and printing at equal size, I can not tell you which is from which. I imagine most people would probably assume they’re two copies of the same print.

 

[Deleted member 379512]

Playing devils advocate here, but what did that mean for the Canon colour then? That it's actually virtually identical to the other brand colours?

Not sure I follow you. Are you saying that moving from off-chip to on-chip like the competition mangles the color rendition somehow?

(I'm guessing I'm misunderstanding you, b/c were that so, one might imagine we'd have a huge pile of complaints from 1DX2, 5D4, 80D, etc. owners, wouldn't we?)

- A

Ah, I didn't end up as clear as I hoped: I was meaning about all current ff cameras taking virtually identical photos; I've seen a number of comments stating they'd never go to brand x due to only liking colour from brand y. It wasn't about where the adcs are placed as such.

A bit tongue in cheek really - I don't feel that all the current cameras are equal in output, but the differences are smaller than what most comparisons would imply, under most circumstances

 

[Deleted member 379512]

So far no one, upon seeing pictures I've made with my 6D2, has said to me how much better the picture would have been if I had had an on-chip ADC.

I consider people who bought the 6D2 basically n00bs who have little idea of what sensor and camera performance to expect in 2018.

And I would consider people who don't understand that an actual photo from the 6D II will be virtually identical to any photo taken with any other FF camera on the market today to be complete idiots. Go read your spec sheets and ignore reality!

Playing devils advocate here, but what does that mean for the Canon colour then? That it's actually virtually identical to the other brand colours?

With calibrated workflow, yes, output is pretty much indistinguishable. When I got my 1Dx and before I sold my a7r2, I took some shots using the same lenses in the same light on both bodies, including my color checker passport in the scene. After profiling, normalizing exposure, and printing at equal size, I can not tell you which is from which. I imagine most people would probably assume they’re two copies of the same print.

This one I find quite interesting : I've seen a few comments around the web in which people have said they can always see a difference? I personally don't myself when comparing, at least not reliably one vs another but that's just me

 

[fullstop]

there are visible differences in jpgs out of camera between different cameras, different brands and also in raw files. differences in raw files may not necessarily show after post-processing, unless parameters of capture and/or post-processing were rather extreme.


as to why i dont consider purchase of a 6D2 to be a very intelligent thing to do:
* if previously owner of a 6D (i) and ef glass - what kind of an ipgrade? certainly not in IQ or worth anywhere near 2k, why not just skip the 6d2 and hope for 6d3 or for decent canon mirrorless FF
* if newcomer to canon FF: better alternatives abailable. 5d4 significantly more expensive, but worth it. 5d3 arguable better choice if budget limited. sony A73 way better choice for not much more money.
* or wait for canon mirrorless FF - maybe it will come in our liferimes and maybe it will be better than 6d2 and nit mire expensive.

as to whining and fact-based criticism: LP-E12 instead of LP-E17 in EOS M5 is shorting its paying customers and criticism-worthy, no matter why Canon did it. "marketing nerfing" is my opinion, but given the circumstances the most likely cause for me. even when some people believe, marketing nerfing does not happen in reality and even less so at beloved Canon.

 

[Mikehit]

as to why i dont consider purchase of a 6D2 to be a very intelligent thing to do:
* if previously owner of a 6D (i) and ef glass - what kind of an ipgrade? certainly not in IQ or worth anywhere near 2k, why not just skip the 6d2 and hope for 6d3 or for decent canon mirrorless FF
* if newcomer to canon FF: better alternatives abailable. 5d4 significantly more expensive, but worth it. 5d3 arguable better choice if budget limited. sony A73 way better choice for not much more money.
* or wait for canon mirrorless FF - maybe it will come in our liferimes and maybe it will be better than 6d2 and nit mire expensive.

People who (unlike you) have owned both cameras say quite often that the 6D2 is a better camera, especially on the sensor. Unfortunately for people like you who merely look at the spec sheets, dynamic range is not everything. Whether the differences constitute an upgrade is a personal preference - if you don;t need a tilty flippy, maybe no. if you find a tilty flippy really useful then the 6D2 is an upgrade.
Having said all that, a camera like the 6D2 is not designed to make people upgrade from 6D to 6D2. It is to offer
a product to market that matches closer with what the market seems to want. Again, an area of product design to which you seem completely ignorant.

even when some people believe, marketing nerfing does not happen in reality and even less so at beloved Canon.

Who believes that? Show me a quote of someone who denies Canon does it. Instead it just shows you up as a someone unable to comprehend someone else's POV and instead dismisses their comments out of hand by criticising them as someone who refuses to see 'he truth' that only you seem able to acknowledge.
Show me one manufacturer who makes multiple products who does not 'market nerf'. It is a fact of life. If you do not want to buy into it, fine. But please stop showing your ignorance.

 

[neuroanatomist]

as to whining and fact-based criticism: LP-E12 instead of LP-E17 in EOS M5 is shorting its paying customers and criticism-worthy, no matter why Canon did it. "marketing nerfing" is my opinion

Thanks for admitting that your criticism is not fact-based, but rather is merely more of your usual self-important whining.

 

[fullstop]

i find it very funny, when Canon defenders in this very thread (!) find it more plausible that Canon's choice of a sub-par battery for EOS M50 is a consequence of my jokingly suggested Canon "sitting on a warehouse full of old, whimpy LP-E12 batteries" rather than being "pure marketing nerfing".

*Infallible Canon* with multi-million dollar market research, refined product planning, 6-sigma kaizen manufacturing processes and world-class, just-in-time supply chain management to "sit on a full warehouse of excess LP-E12 batteries". LOL. 8)

And then some people feel terribly offended and insulted, when I use the term n00bs. ;D ;D ;D

 

[Mikehit]

i find it very funny, when Canon defenders in this very thread (!) find it more plausible that Canon's choice of a sub-par battery for EOS M50 is a consequence of my jokingly suggested Canon "sitting on a warehouse full of old, whimpy LP-E12 batteries" rather than being "pure marketing nerfing".

*Infallible Canon* with multi-million dollar market research, refined product planning, 6-sigma kaizen manufacturing processes and world-class, just-in-time supply chain management to "sit on a full warehouse of excess LP-E12 batteries". LOL. 8)

And then some people feel terribly offended and insulted, when I use the term n00bs. ;D ;D ;D

Are you really and genuinely incapable of differentiating between 'defending Canon' and 'challenging hypothetical assertions'? And that you are unable to accept that this world is no binary - that disagreeing with you does not mean they automatically agree with what Canon does?

What is it that would make you happy - that everyone blindly accepts your claims and agrees with you no mater how flawed your claims?

I have to say that over the last few days I have been pleasantly surprised by the resonableness of your posts...but I guess the AvTvM archetype was bound to re-surface at some point.

 

[fullstop]

well just look at this thread. Starting with my statement that EOS M50 is marketing nerfed with regards to use of subpar battery. the usual "Canon fanbois" in this forum could not handle that. They could not argue with facts, because the facts I presented were clear. And every time they cannot challenge the facts i present, they go into a foaming thrashing frenzy of personal attacks ... what i write is "nothing but my self-important whining" and/or "all conjecture" and/or "Canon sells most cameras" and/or "Canon knows absolutely everything better than you", etc. etc. -

Maybe i will put together a list of the 10 most frequently used braindead personal attack lines around here and label them like
#1 "Canon sells most, Canon knows best"
#2 "all conjecture and ASSumptions"
#3 "your usual self-important whining"
...
etc.

just to make our forum bullies days a little easier and their postings with nothing but personal attacks shorter. ;D 8)

 

[zim]

well just look at this thread. Starting with my statement that EOS M50 is marketing nerfed with regards to use of subpar battery. the usual "Canon fanbois" in this forum could not handle that. They could not argue with facts, because the facts I presented were clear. And every time they cannot challenge the facts i present, they go into a foaming thrashing frenzy of personal attacks ... what i write is "nothing but my self-important whining" and/or "all conjecture" and/or "Canon sells most cameras" and/or "Canon knows absolutely everything better than you", etc. etc. -

Maybe i will put together a list of the 10 most frequently used braindead personal attack lines around here and label them like
#1 "Canon sells most, Canon knows best"
#2 "all conjecture and ASSumptions"
#3 "your usual self-important whining"
...
etc.

just to make our forum bullies days a little easier and their postings with nothing but personal attacks shorter. ;D 8)

Or as others have suggested maybe Canon actually made a consumer friendly decision to share a disposable component so those considering upgrading would have one less reason not to. Or carry two cameras, same batteries for convenience. (and Canon have previous on doing this) That's actually a win win.

This and your scenario are both perfectly valid, we will never know and you certainly don't know.
Why insult and bait?

 

[3kramd5]

The criticism herein has nothing do with allegiance to canon - the subject could have been Samsung or Nikon or Ford or LEGO - and everything to do with the ludicrousness of the claims made. Take out the “marketing nerfing” as the fundamental basis upon which you base your complaints, and it becomes reasonable.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Or as others have suggested maybe Canon actually made a consumer friendly decision to share a disposable component so those considering upgrading would have one less reason not to. Or carry two cameras, same batteries for convenience. (and Canon have previous on doing this) That's actually a win win.

This and your scenario are both perfectly valid, we will never know and you certainly don't know.
Why insult and bait?

No, you see...those concepts don't fit into AvTvM's world view, therefore they do not exist in the AvTvM Universe. Disagreement with him constitutes bullying and personal attacks. Stating facts that contradict his opinion also constitute bullying and personal attacks.