Multiple cameras coming to the new Cinema EOS R lineup. Along with a new XC series camera. [CR2]

[NorskHest]

Not a video guy, but seen a lot of videos on the R5 lately.....is the lack of IBIS in these cameras a result of the weird artifacts it creates when panning in video? From what the reviewers were showing it can change the framing ever so slightly as it bumps the sensor around, and can be noticeable in some types of shots.

That is precisely why putting in body image stabilization should not ever be put into a cinema camera

 

[CarlMillerPhoto]

I hope Canon never puts Ibis in a cinema camera. It is just not professional looking with all wobbles that’s what gimbals are for. The codecs will probably be H.265 so most of the footage will be terrible to edit. The specs for all these cameras are great but again using RF glass for cinema is not a wise thing to do. But the RF to EF with the variable ND that is a wonderful set up on a small little body like this. The RF mount I believe will make EF glass even more valuable because of the adaptability.

1. You can turn IBIS off if you can't learn how to use it within its limitations (i.e. avoid wobble) 2. Most people looking at the cinema line have workstations that can handle H.265, 3. No need for a variable ND adapter on cameras that have built in NDs....focal reducer adapters are the bigger appeal.

 

[lightingb]

This will have something to do with the cripple hammer effect. Them doing SD cards with H.265 files at IPB compression (most likely) is a way of protecting their ef cinema line

This might be the case. But I also wonder if the new CFexpress A card could be used and it was mistaken for SD? Sony just barely announced it so its possible. But it definitely doesn't have the CFE speeds. Just a thought

 

[cornieleous]

Not a video guy, but seen a lot of videos on the R5 lately.....is the lack of IBIS in these cameras a result of the weird artifacts it creates when panning in video? From what the reviewers were showing it can change the framing ever so slightly as it bumps the sensor around, and can be noticeable in some types of shots.

As long as you can turn it off, I don't see why they would not include it except for heat and power consumption. Most of the videos whining about wobble use ridiculous wide lenses and movements, and the GH5 and all other strong IBIS systems do the same. IBIS definitely has its place for scenarios when a gimbal is impractical, and if used properly, the corners won't wobble or can even be cropped out.

 

[CarlMillerPhoto]

Regarding the XC20, I really hope they improve the integrated lens. The 24-240 on the XC10/15 isn't very good, especially on the wide end.

 

[WhatDoesMStandsFor]

However, based on this rumor... why would they then offer only S35 for double the R5 price (with no IBIS too)? I'm still hoping the RF mount on the cinema cameras would be better at these prices.

If true, the S35 DGO sensor of the C300 Mk III blows completely out of the water any full frame sensor of Canon.

 

[WhatDoesMStandsFor]

This will have something to do with the cripple hammer effect. Them doing SD cards with H.265 files at IPB compression (most likely) is a way of protecting their ef cinema line

SD cards UHS-II are capable to write 4K30 H.264 depending on the compression rate. This could also be Canon way of saying that they'll also be implementing CFexpress type A in the future.

 

[WhatDoesMStandsFor]

Well, apparently I am not understanding the video,as those cameras, apart from R300, seemkind of underspecced. Why the heck no IBIS? Shouldn't it become natural part of most high end releases nowadays? 8 bit, no raw, for such a money?

IBIS is problematic in a lot of scenarios. That's why they've implemented the digital IS on the C500 Mk II and C300 Mk III. I think these cameras will also have some form of that technology.

 

[WhatDoesMStandsFor]

in my opinion, CFE cards runs way too hot as we found out recently and throttle themselves down when reached a certain temperature.

Yes, it does, but it's not a problem for the C500 Mk II / C300 Mk III / 1Dx Mk III(all of which have 2 CFexpress type B slots, btw). These cameras will be bigger enough to handle CFexpress as well.

 

[WhatDoesMStandsFor]

1. You can turn IBIS off if you can't learn how to use it within its limitations (i.e. avoid wobble)

Even with IBIS turned off you may have jittering and other problems. That's one of the reasons why most cinema lenses also don't have IS.

Anything that makes sensors or optics move could be problematic on set.

 

[Twinix]

I dont want IBIS in a cinema camera - I dont want the wobble, the weight plus IS in lens removes small shake. The FX9 has a gyro info which seems to work nice.
I want full size XLR. No matter what model it is I want BPA-batteries. I want a good body/grip to comfortably hold/operate.
I also want 10bit 4k 60p of course.

 

[Twinix]

I don't see anything about stills. Shouldn't these cameras also be class leading stills cameras?

I mean, we expect a stills camera to produce class leading video so it only makes sense.

Until now, this has been a serious thread. Please.

 

[spomeniks]

Not a video guy, but seen a lot of videos on the R5 lately.....is the lack of IBIS in these cameras a result of the weird artifacts it creates when panning in video? From what the reviewers were showing it can change the framing ever so slightly as it bumps the sensor around, and can be noticeable in some types of shots.

Having IBIS is "nice" in a camera, but as for cinema-class camera use cases, this thread surprisingly has some great insight/theories: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4367600

I remember a lot of discussion about it when the GH5S released, where some were unhappy about the decision to remove IBIS, whereas many reviewers who do a lot of video work were fine or happy with the decision because they're not going to use it anyway

 

[marathonman]

That is precisely why putting in body image stabilization should not ever be put into a cinema camera

There seems to be a setting in my R5 to turn IBIS off.

 

[Twinix]

It was a joke in light of the desecration of any number of 'serious R5 threads' over the past few days.

It was a joke. Cripes.

Carry on.

I know. I also know all your posts about the video sides in the R5 and R6. The thing is, I prefer to have a serious thread, from what I can tell your only goal is to make a joke.
Carry on.

 

[Thrashard]

These damn Corporations, this is pathetic. This is what Canon should have released long time ago. I don't want all these features on an EOS camera.

It's really disturbing, spending over $20,000 ; that's more money than average car on the road and I get junk video features I could care less about.

 

[jvillain]

I would rather have IAF than IBIS in a run and gun cinema camera. On sticks who cares abot IBIS? The issues with wobble in IBIS are only in very specific cercumstances. You need to be on a very wide lens and it needs to be the kind that doesn't distort objects I forget the term. Spherical lenses and longer lenses will not distort under IBIS.

I pulled the trigger on a BMPCC 6K a week ago and right after started seeing rumours about these and started to have second thoughts. Now that I see the actual spec list I am glad I didn't wait.

 

[john1970]

The R300 has my interests, but I don't understand the following bullet:

• No RAW capability internally at launch

Why can it not have RAW capability internally at launch?

 

[mppix]

Even with IBIS turned off you may have jittering and other problems. That's one of the reasons why most cinema lenses also don't have IS.
Anything that makes sensors or optics move could be problematic on set.

Probably not: Cinema lenses don't have IS (or AF) because these lenses are used in very specific conditions, where IS is not needed and lens designs are already complex and expensive enough. Cinema lenses have a lot of moving lens groups, for focusing, zooming (if zoom-lens), and moving groups to counter focus/zoom breathing.

For IBIS (as well as for AF), the argument can again be made that it is not needed for cinematographic shooting. Some others can strongly benefit from it: vloggers, documentary, run&gun, etc.
The wobbling can probably be minimized by tuning the IBIS, i.e. tune it down if you mount a <24mm rectilinear lens; shouldn't be noticable on a gimbal and there should be an option to turn it off. I don't see a strong technical benefit for not having IBIS, while having it makes a camera more general purpose driving costs down.

Just my 2c.

 

[padam]

The R300 has my interests, but I don't understand the following bullet:

• No RAW capability internally at launch

Why can it not have RAW capability internally at launch?

There are several possibilities: maybe it is a new RAW codec that is still under development.

Or, because it very much looks like a cut-price C300 Mark III, it is a paid firmware upgrade, like with some Sony and Panasonic cameras where if you don't use this feature, you don't have to pay for it.

It is quite funny how people said the C500 Mark II undervalued the C700, and then they said the same again about C300 Mark III versus the C500 Mark II

Unless there is a big catch somewhere, this camera may do the same yet again, with a much more flexible mount and the option of a Speed Booster for EF-mount lenses.