No News for Third Party Full Frame Canon RF Lenses

[Del Paso]

You are the one making claims, so it is logical to ask you for the data to support your claims.

Maybe you should read this : https://www.canonrumors.com/the-dat...multiple-camera-and-lens-categories-for-2024/

Some people just keep repeating the same nonsense...

 

[neuroanatomist]

Can you prove otherwise?

So you made a claim that you cannot substantiate, and you're trying to shift the burden of proof to others (d!ck move).

I have not ever seen Canon announce that they lead the full frame MILC market. Sony has stated that a couple of times. Sony used to say they led the mirrorless camera market...but Canon seems to have taken that spot away from them starting in 2022. So from that, it's evident that Sony lost MILC market share. Since for many years Sony was the only manufacturer selling FF MILCs, they had 100% of the market share and the only way to go from there is down. So the bottom line is that you can't back up your statement, and both current facts and logic refute your statement.

Incidentally, Canon was #1 in full frame MILC sales last year in the US, which represents ~20% of global MILC sales.

 

[Toni]

So you made a claim that you cannot substantiate, and you're trying to shift the burden of proof to others (d!ck move).

I have not ever seen Canon announce that they lead the full frame MILC market. Sony has stated that a couple of times. Sony used to say they led the mirrorless camera market...but Canon seems to have taken that spot away from them starting in 2022. So from that, it's evident that Sony lost MILC market share. Since for many years Sony was the only manufacturer selling FF MILCs, they had 100% of the market share and the only way to go from there is down. So the bottom line is that you can't back up your statement, and both current facts and logic refute your statement.

Incidentally, Canon was #1 in full frame MILC sales last year in the US, which represents ~20% of global MILC sales.

So it's difficult to prove either one way or the other.

Anyway, I said: "And for full-frame RF... The market that Canon has lost by not allowing third-party lenses will never be recovered. I guess they are aware of that." And it seems to me that it is evident that not releasing the RF mount in full-frame has caused it to lose market share in full-frame.
How much? Well, if the manufacturers don't give more exact figures, it's difficult to quantify. They are supposed to know it.

 

[neuroanatomist]

So it's difficult to prove either one way or the other.

Lol, only in your own mind. To make it simple: Sony led the global mirrorless market until 2022 and had 100% of full frame mirrorless market share before 2018. Now, Canon leads the global mirrorless market and Canon has close to but still slightly less share of the full frame mirrorless market compared to Sony. Manifestly obvious that Sony has lost full frame market share to Canon (and Nikon, to a lesser extent). Well...obvious to anyone capable of logical reasoning (apparently not you).

Anyway, I said: "And for full-frame RF... The market that Canon has lost by not allowing third-party lenses will never be recovered. I guess they are aware of that." And it seems to me that it is evident that not releasing the RF mount in full-frame has caused it to lose market share in full-frame.
How much? Well, if the manufacturers don't give more exact figures, it's difficult to quantify. They are supposed to know it.

Except that Canon hasn't lost full frame market share. They've gained it. What you're really suggesting is the possibility that Canon could have gained more FF market share than they have already if they had permitted RF-mount full frame AF lenses from 3rd parties. That's the sort of woulda-shoulda-coulda question to which we'll never have an answer because the past can't be changed.

Canon made the strategic decision to prevent 3rd party FF lenses for RF (and APS-C lenses, until recently), and history (21 years and counting of leading the ILC market) very clearly shows they've made far more correct strategic decisions than incorrect ones.

As I stated above, Canon is slightly behind Sony in the FF MILC market globally, but ahead of Sony in the US...so it's probably not long until Canon surpasses Sony for leadership of the global FF MILC market, as they have already done for the MILC market as a whole.

You really should quit while you're behind, but probably you'll keep posting and further embarrass yourself. Good luck with that.

 

[David - Sydney]

That said, Sony does need to refresh the a6100 and a6400 to be based around the new 26mp BSI sensor used in the a6700/FX30, as well as give them the AF updates from newer Sony cameras. And a cheaper option that isn't purely vlogging-focused would be good too.

Does Sony really "refresh" their models? My impression is that they leave the older models on the shelf and discount them and release a new model.
The exceptions are A9 and A1. Any others?
Even updating firmware with free new features is a new concept for them.

 

[Richard CN]

In all seriousness, I sometimes wonder if the demise of the M format was due in part to the fact some M devices did in fact "hit the APS-C lineup correctly"...I know both of my daughters think so.

But perhaps the APS-C M hit the market at price points that weren't profitable enough.

In particular, the sleek M200 (having many of the features of the M5) and the somewhat bulkier M6MkII (basically a mirrorless, smaller 90D) both deliver a whole lotta bang for the buck/yen/ruble/pound/euro etc...and both were heavily discounted when the M's fate became known to all. I should know, for once I bought at the bottom of the market...

I long wondered if there was politics involved too - or even different regions doing the development that have since dissappeared.

 

[vikingar]

Does Sony really "refresh" their models? My impression is that they leave the older models on the shelf and discount them and release a new model.
The exceptions are A9 and A1. Any others?
Even updating firmware with free new features is a new concept for them.

I sometimes wonder with their consumer electronics - not just cameras - if they just drop their whole product teams after release. The usual pattern seems to be groundbreaking technology in Mk I, then extremely minor improvements in followup products. Sometimes with completely different designs. Maybe it's just Conway's Law in action.

Their cameras are sort of an exception to this, but they still make strange decisions sometimes.

 

[ashmadux]

People out of touch with reality often see things that aren’t real.

To clarify, this is reality:

Canon is Number 1 – Again and Again

Canon is once again number one in the industry, selling more ILCs (interchangeable lens cameras) than any other manufacturer. Canon has held this rank since 200

www.canonrumors.com

Still with the unfunny unasked for "information." What was the point of this? Elon musk 'winning team' commentary?

The "reality" is Canon being fake number one doesn't change my position. Maybe everyone in L mount should not have bother because they're not number 1?

So obsessed with Canon sales numbers please go work for them so you can be in bliss throughout your work day every week every year. Otherwise that comment was exceedingly excellent in being exceptionally useless.

Have a great day!

 

[neuroanatomist]

The "reality" is Canon being fake number one doesn't change my position.

Of course it doesn’t. Flat Earthers continue to believe despite factual evidence to the contrary.

You’re the one who stated, “I could see a ton of other people [selling all their Canon gear] because this is just nonsense already.” The sales data indicate that’s very unlikely, but you can see it happening. Good luck with your fantasy.

Honestly, if anyone should sell all their Canon gear, it’s you. You have consistently complained about Canon since the 7D. I guess you’re a glutton for punishment, or more likely just a whiner. Whatever gets you through the day.

 

[PhotoCadieux]

Canon has fallen far behind both Sony and Nikon in the 'Big White Zooms" department.
We need more options.

 

[mimbu]

Your clear implication is that a 'smart consumer who is doing pre-purchase research' would choose Sony...yet the market data show that far more consumers choose Canon. So either camera buyers are not smart consumers, or your speculation about their motivations is not applicable to a large segment of the market.

You only see more consumers choosing Canon if you include legacy EF mount sales, items sold at extremely low prices. If you look at only MILC sales, it's extremely close.

Also, not all consumers are smart. Many buy with limited or no research.

 

[neuroanatomist]

You only see more consumers choosing Canon if you include legacy EF mount sales, items sold at extremely low prices. If you look at only MILC sales, it's extremely close.

If you believe that 41% vs 32% of the MILC market is ‘extremely close’, go right ahead. Given that Sony led the mirrorless market until a few years ago, and Canon overtook them and is pulling away, I think the data show the opposite. But if you want to wear your Sony-tinted glasses, that’s fine.

Also, not all consumers are smart. Many buy with limited or no research.

Yes, that was part of my point. But Canon clearly knows the size and importance of the APS-C market, and also what those buyers are willing to spend.

 

[P-visie]

If you believe that 41% vs 32% of the MILC market is ‘extremely close’, go right ahead. Given that Sony led the mirrorless market until a few years ago, and Canon overtook them and is pulling away, I think the data show the opposite. But if you want to wear your Sony-tinted glasses, that’s fine.

Petapixel has spoken with Sony’s Head of Imaging Entertainment Business Unit at the CP+ show in Yokohama, Japan in February: “We are very pleased that the market itself is expanding”.

Sony-tintded glasses are not enough, you need a Sony AR or VR headset to be so optimistic about Sony’s declining marketshare .

See: https://petapixel.com/2025/03/23/so...tition-because-it-believes-alpha-is-the-best/

 

[Snapster]

So is this business strategy working for Canon? In Japan Sony is gaining more and more lead in mirrorless. 36% vs Canon at 26% in 2024. Is that an indication where things are headed globally where Canon apparently still has a lead? Clearly only the pressure of losing ground to Sony could make Canon consider licensing deals third parties could accept.

With so many lens manufacturers killing it recently I can't help but feel the RF mount is getting too far behind now. It's basically one great a7v away from switching for me. Even though I would love to stay on Canon and slap a Sigma 500 5.6 on my R5, or some Viltrox Air lenses for traveling. Or a Tamron 35-150 for events.

 

[neuroanatomist]

So is this business strategy working for Canon? In Japan Sony is gaining more and more lead in mirrorless. 36% vs Canon at 26% in 2024. Is that an indication where things are headed globally where Canon apparently still has a lead? Clearly only the pressure of losing ground to Sony could make Canon consider licensing deals third parties could accept.

Compared to 2023 for MILC share in Japan, Sony gained 2% and Canon lost 2% meaning a total delta of 4%. In Japan, Canon barely led over Sony for one of the past 5 years. Globally in 2023, Canon led the MILC market by 9% (41% vs. 32%). They were behind Sony globally 4 years ago, and steadily gained then overtook and are pulling away.

It doesn't seem like the trends in Japan are representative of the global market. Having said that, the home market is important and losing ground there won't sit well with Canon leadership. Canon obviously knew about this trend before BCN told the rest of us...Sony's ZV-E10 II is solidly on top of the monthly BCN rankings, and I suspect that's why Canon launched the R50 V.

With so many lens manufacturers killing it recently I can't help but feel the RF mount is getting too far behind now. It's basically one great a7v away from switching for me. Even though I would love to stay on Canon and slap a Sigma 500 5.6 on my R5, or some Viltrox Air lenses for traveling. Or a Tamron 35-150 for events.

As you know, Canon doesn't care what you do. Personally, the RF 24-105/2.8 and 100-300/2.8 are my most-used lenses and I don't see anything in the Sony or Nikon lineups to compare (28mm is not 24mm, and discontinued lenses for old mounts need not apply).

 

[EricN]

Some people just keep repeating the same nonsense...

Most of the time, it's politicians