Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

[Pi]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

EM-5 + Olympus 40-150 4-5.6 620 v 6D + Canon 70-200 f/4 IS 1560 (EM-5 39.74%; 940 lighter)
EM-5 + Panasonic 35-100 f/2.8 790 v 6D + Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS 2290 (EM-5 34.50%; 1500 lighter)

You should compare the 35-100 f/2.8 to the 70-200 f/4 IS (the latter is even faster) or to the 70-300 non L.

 

[JoeDavid]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I'm also interested in the RX-10 all-in-one as a travel camera when photography is not the primary reason I'm traveling (i.e., business or family travel). It uses the 1" sensor but, with a Carl Zeiss 24-200mm equivalent lens and constant f2.8 aperture, I might pick one up if it has a good review.

 

[Dylan777]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Why does anyone think these are 'back up' cameras?

+1...I don't get it either. Especially "I don't need new Zeiss FE lenses beccause they over priced". Better yet "I already have huge collection of L lenses"

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

ISO 51200, this past Monday:

Z96A6810bdEFKleinBWMaster by Peter Hauri, on Flickr

Superb!

 

[Ricku]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

ISO 51200, this past Monday:

Z96A6810bdEFKleinBWMaster by Peter Hauri, on Flickr

That is a very nice image Pedro, but it doesn't bring anything to this discussion. It only demonstrates what we already know. The 5D3 is an excellent camera for low light shooting. If you like high ISO stuff and want to use your camera as some kind of "military night vision device", then the 5D3 is truly great.

It's resolution and the low ISO performance I am pissed about, especially since I take 90% if my shots below ISO 400.

There haven't been any real improvements in these areas since the 5D2, and even those improvements were kinda incremental. :-\

 

[JEL]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I've followed these forums and this site for a while (lots of good info, thanks ) but I had to register when I saw a post about a Sony mirrorless camera...

I've had one...

Worst piece of **** ever!

Change lens 1 time and dust has already settled on the sensor.
That, in my opinion, is an absolute reason for NOT considering a mirrorless camera if you're serious about your photo-quality.

I'm talking from experience. Mirrorless is not worth a damn thing. You might as well get a pocket-cam then.

I don't work for Canon (or Nikon or Sony or any other cam-manufacturer), but I do have experience with both DSLRs, SLRs and Sony's mirrorless, so I hope nobody will get offended by my 2 cents worth here.

Happy shooting
(don't get a mirrorless, you'll regret it (even if it's from Canon, should they ever decide to produce such ****, which I hope they never do)

 

[Albi86]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I've followed these forums and this site for a while (lots of good info, thanks ) but I had to register when I saw a post about a Sony mirrorless camera...

I've had one...

Worst piece of **** ever!

Change lens 1 time and dust has already settled on the sensor.
That, in my opinion, is an absolute reason for NOT considering a mirrorless camera if you're serious about your photo-quality.

I'm talking from experience. Mirrorless is not worth a damn thing. You might as well get a pocket-cam then.

I don't work for Canon (or Nikon or Sony or any other cam-manufacturer), but I do have experience with both DSLRs, SLRs and Sony's mirrorless, so I hope nobody will get offended by my 2 cents worth here.

Happy shooting
(don't get a mirrorless, you'll regret it (even if it's from Canon, should they ever decide to produce such ****, which I hope they never do)

Sooooo... dust gets on the sensor while you change lens and you blame the camera?
And you registered for the urge to say this?

 

[Ricku]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I've followed these forums and this site for a while (lots of good info, thanks ) but I had to register when I saw a post about a Sony mirrorless camera...

I've had one...

Worst piece of **** ever!

Change lens 1 time and dust has already settled on the sensor.
That, in my opinion, is an absolute reason for NOT considering a mirrorless camera if you're serious about your photo-quality.

I'm talking from experience. Mirrorless is not worth a damn thing. You might as well get a pocket-cam then.

I don't work for Canon (or Nikon or Sony or any other cam-manufacturer), but I do have experience with both DSLRs, SLRs and Sony's mirrorless, so I hope nobody will get offended by my 2 cents worth here.

Happy shooting
(don't get a mirrorless, you'll regret it (even if it's from Canon, should they ever decide to produce such ****, which I hope they never do)

Hmm. I'm getting this strange kind of feeling that you don't really like mirrorless cameras.

 

[torger]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

(don't get a mirrorless, you'll regret it (even if it's from Canon, should they ever decide to produce such ****, which I hope they never do)

Unfortunately(?) the DSLR concept is as dead as CRTs (you know those big fat TVs and computer screens) was in the early 2000s, but they don't know it yet. DSLRs will hang on for as long EVFs and on-sensor focusing is not as good for the photojournalists and action photographers, but then they will disappear in favor of mirrorless.

It will be interesting to see who will be leading this unavoidable shift in technology. Currently it seems like Sony has the lead.

 

[JEL]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Sooooo... dust gets on the sensor while you change lens and you blame the camera?
And you registered for the urge to say this?

Yes, sorry if I stepped on your toe or something, but without the mirror the sensor is wide open and that's just not a clever design. Like I said, I'm talking from experience here. Don't be a fool and fall for this 'fancy smartness' just because I did. DSLRs work. They're tried equipment with a good and stable track-record. I don't care if you go ahead and blow your money on a mirrorless, but I felt a warning was in order. Take it or leave it. Peace out dude!

Hmm. I'm getting this strange kind of feeling that you don't really like mirrorless cameras.

You're like a psychic
You're right. Mirrorless is a consumer-trick. It sounds really cool, but they never mention the side-effects.

Unfortunately(?) the DSLR concept is as dead as CRTs (you know those big fat TVs and computer screens) was in the early 2000s, but they don't know it yet. DSLRs will hang on for as long EVFs and on-sensor focusing is not as good for the photojournalists and action photographers, but then they will disappear in favor of mirrorless.

It will be interesting to see who will be leading this unavoidable shift in technology. Currently it seems like Sony has the lead.

There might be a group of people who will switch to, or start with, mirrorless. Each to his/her own.
Fact is mirrorless has this major side-effect which WILL ruin your photos.
The choice is obviously your own
But mirrorless is not a clever design.

 

[qwRad]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Very interesting release. Would be a great and light high system for wide landscapes while hiking with a 17mm TS-E or even the suggested dark horse Nikon 14-24 f/2.8. With the long teles (especially fast) the weight savings aren't that great and of course there's the issue of AF for tracking etc.

From the video http://youtu.be/bnvgceTEV3c that was linked to this thread a while back I have two issues though.

1) The shutter sound is quite loud vs. the recent silent modes from Canon. This I can live with.

2) Battery-life just plain sucks. The reviewer says "under 300 shots" with the A7r which is just laughable. Imagine a a week long hiking trip or even a weekend trip. All the weight you save vs. a 5D3 for example would be negated by all the batteries you would have to lug around...

 

[ahab1372]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

[...] DSLRs work. They're tried equipment with a good and stable track-record. [...]

So were horse and carriage

 

[9VIII]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I think the overall design of the A7 is pretty good. It has four wheels on it and a bunch of custom buttons. That's four wheels that can be used for ISO, white balance, and who knows what else. Hopefully that sort of design catches on. The placement of the shutter button is odd, but I guess it's not the end of the world. (and the mode dial has custom settings!)
As long as I get aperture control it should work as well as my 5D2 for indoor shots on a tripod. I actually like that it uses an adapter because that means there's always a tripod foot attached to the lens instead of hanging off the bottom of the camera, which usually feels a lot less sturdy. And it has Wi-Fi to control your shot remotely, it would be great to be able to see what you're doing from in front of the camera.
As appealing as all this is, having all your lenses work natively can be a big deal, and Canon has most of the same features. The big question really is what the price of the big MP from Canon will be. If they put it in the 1D price bracket it's not going to be much of a contest.

 

[JEL]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

[...] DSLRs work. They're tried equipment with a good and stable track-record. [...]

So were horse and carriage

Well, choice is good.
Informed choice is very good

 

[BJDrew]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I know this is somewhat off-topic, but I really do appreciate the heart-felt and honest post about the Sony camera system. From someone so important to the Canon information "engine" - it means a lot. I hope it means a lot to Canon as well. Thanks again.

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

the DSLR concept is as dead as CRTs (you know those big fat TVs and computer screens) was in the early 2000s, but they don't know it yet.

What a shame, Canon & Nikon should have hired you for your incredible foresight and the ability to predict future.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

None of this is neither here nor there. The fact of the matter is, every photog has a differing set of needs. These new Sony developments will be perfect for some and not so much for others.

Assessing these new bodies and coming to the conclusion that they will inevitably replace the current form of DSLRs or render Canon bodies obsolete merely exhibits a lack of understanding of EVERY shooter's needs and a very narrow perspective. No one here can possibly account for all the variances of work or preference that exist out there.

The A7 and A7r will blow many people away. Conversely, they are still flawed in many ways that make them impractical for many applications such as AF speed with EF lenses, a max flash sync speed of 1/160 (a huge deal to those who shoot anything other than natural light), 300 or less shot battery life, amongst other things that may or may not be found as they start to get into people's hands.

Either way, these bodies are huge advancements in technology and the mirrorless market. I love that they exist now, and I too am on the fence about getting one as a completely separate kit for working on personal projects with specific lenses (wouldn't make sense for me as a second body for paid work). However, there are still major issues that need to be resolved before it could be viewed as what is going to completely destroy the Canon user's need for their current DSLR or the general DSLR form factor as we know it.

 

[Albi86]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

the DSLR concept is as dead as CRTs (you know those big fat TVs and computer screens) was in the early 2000s, but they don't know it yet.

What a shame, Canon & Nikon should have hired you for your incredible foresight and the ability to predict future.

Well, can't be quite a prophecy, but similarities do exist.

I remember people complaining about low refresh rate and ghosting, inconsistent white point and color reproduction, narrow angle of view, etc etc. Also back then there were hardcore CRT users who snubbed the first generations of LCD displays and swore that they would never truly compete with catodic tubes... and look at the world now.

Human beings love simple novelties but are genetically programmed to refuse big changes. But changes do happen, and people/companies who don't keep the pace are left behind. We now praise Sony for being ahead of the competition, but it's the same Sony which saw its domination of TV market being eaten up by Samsung. And the list is long....

 

[Dylan777]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Sooooo... dust gets on the sensor while you change lens and you blame the camera?
And you registered for the urge to say this?

Yes, sorry if I stepped on your toe or something, but without the mirror the sensor is wide open and that's just not a clever design. Like I said, I'm talking from experience here. Don't be a fool and fall for this 'fancy smartness' just because I did. DSLRs work. They're tried equipment with a good and stable track-record. I don't care if you go ahead and blow your money on a mirrorless, but I felt a warning was in order. Take it or leave it. Peace out dude!

Hmm. I'm getting this strange kind of feeling that you don't really like mirrorless cameras.

You're like a psychic
You're right. Mirrorless is a consumer-trick. It sounds really cool, but they never mention the side-effects.

Unfortunately(?) the DSLR concept is as dead as CRTs (you know those big fat TVs and computer screens) was in the early 2000s, but they don't know it yet. DSLRs will hang on for as long EVFs and on-sensor focusing is not as good for the photojournalists and action photographers, but then they will disappear in favor of mirrorless.

It will be interesting to see who will be leading this unavoidable shift in technology. Currently it seems like Sony has the lead.

There might be a group of people who will switch to, or start with, mirrorless. Each to his/her own.
Fact is mirrorless has this major side-effect which WILL ruin your photos.
The choice is obviously your own
But mirrorless is not a clever design.

Operator error maybe?

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Good points Albi.

I do not doubt that mirrorless will be there one day as well. But that day is not today nor is it the official release date of these bodies. I personally do not care whether it is a big change or not. I do not merely hold onto the kit I have because it is what I have always been used to and fear change. There are fatal flaws in the A7 and A7r for my needs (native lens options, flash sync, and battery life) that will not allow me to put all my eggs in that basket to make it my body in my primary kit at present. I long for the day that those issues are solved and I can whole-heartedly make an uncompromised jump. Until then....