Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

SiliconVoid said:
Sad so many people today think every new model has to have the latest gadget in order to be functional - and then base superiority on whether another manufacturer has the same gadgets in their new model.
It really does not matter what some 3rd party service says about sensor performance, especially when the measurement data is taken out of the camera before it is processed and does not represent the data the user would ever have access to. The reality is that in the field it is function, ergonomics and experience that allow you to get the image - not one more stop of DR or more MP.. To that end you still see more Canon equipment in the field than any other manufacturer.

In reading comments here and other forums regarding the new Sony body, I do not think people realize how crappy AF performance is going to be using other lenses than the new Sony lenses.. That realization along with the plethora of older 3rd party lenses will mean - manual focusing - which is even crappier using an EVF.. Mirrorless bodies are neat and all, certainly a means of access to more lenses than any one manufacturer ever dreamed of, but it is of limited benefit and not a functional substitute for an OVF and dedicated AF sensor.

I don't think you realize that people are not going to dump their 1DX for sports for the A7R they are just desperate to get more MP and DR from some scenarios and this A7R will allow that, using Canon lenses, for tripod-based, slow, landscape work where none of that stuff you go on about is the end of the world. Would it be nicer to have the sensor in a 5D3 body, of course, but Canon doesn't make it and at least this ties one over a little longer and lets you get certain types of shots just fine.
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

J.R. said:
sandymandy said:
Canon plz we are waiting omg omg omg omg omg omg

Haha ... I though am not too keen on the A7R. This MP monster will need the best of the best lenses and exceptionally good shooting technique. A tripod may also be necessary which makes the smaller form factor irrelevant. It could very well end up like the D-800E with users as frustrated and emotional as the lady in your photograph ;D

I'm not too sure you'll be able to extract the best out of the A7R with lenses that are used with adapters. The use of an adapter will deteriorate lens performance which, even if very slight, will result in a hit on the IQ. Unless Sony matches these cameras with exceptional native lenses, I don't see the A7R going anywhere.

Early reports coming in are that the Canon lenses are doing just fine on it and that people are getting sharper results at the edges with 24-70 II on it than a native 24-70 nikkor on a D800. Early reports have been very positive as to how all sorts of Canon lenses are working out on it.
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

CarlTN said:
I am very underwhelmed by this new Sony full frame mirrorless camera announcement. Agree with others who wonder if you could make use of the 36 MP on such a camera.

Frankly only committed landscape photographers can make full use of high resolution images, where the entire frame is sharp. Certainly there's no "crop advantage" to higher resolution sensors, unless that is the kind of photography you're doing. Otherwise your DOF is not deep enough...only part of the image is making full use of the resolution (if even that). This means a heavy tripod always being used, cable release or some kind of remote delay, etc. How many of the above Sony enthusiats who are so lady gaga over this new Sony, are going to shoot that way? I say very few.

Oh come 36MP is not THAT high on FF. It's lower density than APS-C has been for ages and people whip off 100% crisp shots hand-held on those plenty often enough all the time.

not sure what you mean by the crop advantage thing, why wouldn't you get more pixels per duck with it? (assuming fast enough shutter and proper focus, granted this camera, with the AF, there are many wildlife shots where it might be a bit rougher going, although you could certainly pull it off at times no doubt although in not quite as a painless and ideal fashion)
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I think what Sony have done is brilliant. In Australia, Sony are offering a free metabones adapter by redemption. I have too many lenses to consider a switch to Nikon and there is no way a Nikon mount could ever take a Canon lens, but with the Sony I can get an A7R and use my existing lenses with it. Of course the autofocus is slow, so for certain things I would keep my 5D2 and 24-105 combo at least initially.
If the E mount 24-70 F4 lens is a good one (and you would expect it will be) when funds allow I would get that as a walkaround, with my other lenses to be used for slow landscape/tripod work as mentioned by someone else above. The 5D2 would then be sold.

They have given me an option that doesn't involve thousands of dollars to change systems straight away. I can keep a foot in either camp and simply buy the most appropriate body at the time. If Sony keep producing brilliant Zeiss lenses for the system AND stay ahead in the body/sensor game, then eventually I'll end up with more native lenses. And just like that, Sony have converted me.

I'm not sure that there would be many people who would be looking at a $2300 36 megapixel camera as their first camera purchase. The target market are going to be enthusiasts and professionals who would already be heavily invested in either the Canon or Nikon systems. Therefore this is a smart move by Sony, who realised they would have to do something different to get CaNikon users to switch.

When you think about it, an A7R with a 24-70 will cost only fractionally more than a D800E body only and take pretty much any lens - sweet!
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Sold my Nikon D7100 & 18-300 and just ordered the Sony a7 with the kit lens (28-70mm) ... will try to get the metabones EOS adapter ... I stopped buying sony products a very long time ago due abandoned product lines ... hope they keep to their word this time.
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Rienzphotoz said:
Sold my Nikon D7100 & 18-300 and just ordered the Sony a7 with the kit lens (28-70mm) ... will try to get the metabones EOS adapter ... I stopped buying sony products a very long time ago due abandoned product lines ... hope they keep to their word this time.

I decided to go down to local Sony store to test out A7. They only have the kit lens 28-70 display with A7. My 1st impression is AWESOME.

1. AF speed is FAST - I mean from close-up to far away. My 2 cents, you should have no problem shooting subject running across with single shot. The A7 seems to have faster AF than my Fuji x100s - indoor. I was testing at f5.6 etc...on the kit lens. I'm sure Zeiss 35 and 55mm will be better - can't be worst right?

2. Body seems to be very solid - not as my RX1. Maybe A7r

The Electronic view finder and grip make the body thicker. Since they don't have Zeiss FE 55mm(the lens I really want to test-out) in store, the store manager let me use the Sony/Zeiss 50mm crop lens on A7, the weight feels really good. Again, this is crop lens.

The 28-70 kit lens is reallllllllllyyyyyyy light
 

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Thanks for the pics. I haven't had a chance to look at one yet, but by those pictures it looks as though I will need to get a battery grip, or it will be too small in my hands, like my partners 550D.
I'm not really interested in compactness and really like the feel of a DSLR in my hands. I've had a look at the 5D3 and it feels superb, but it doesn't have a 36 megapixel 14 stop DR sensor!
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Traktor said:
Thanks for the pics. I haven't had a chance to look at one yet, but by those pictures it looks as though I will need to get a battery grip, or it will be too small in my hands, like my partners 550D.
I'm not really interested in compactness and really like the feel of a DSLR in my hands. I've had a look at the 5D3 and it feels superb, but it doesn't have a 36 megapixel 14 stop DR sensor!

WARNING: if you don't like compact body size, STAY AWAY from Sony mirrorless A7 series, RX1, RX100 II ;D

It will be very interesting when Sony/Zeiss releases some FE UWA f4 IS lenses for A7 series. I really think Sony hits a home run on A7 series. Can't wait for what Sony/Zeiss have to offer on lenses up coming years ::)
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

sandymandy said:
Canon plz we are waiting omg omg omg omg omg omg

Hilarious, and unfortunately, too the point.

I think it may be a long wait for a similar piece of gear from Canon, Mirrorless does seem to be something Canon want to be in because everyone else is, but they concentrate on the FF DSLR market and possibly intend to remain that way for some time.

The news on new M disappointed me and I went and purchased the a7r, I like what I see so far, some things I'm not so happy with (The EVF takes some getting used to when you've never used one before), but I feel that way about my 1Dx & 5DMK III as well, but I do think Sony have a reasonable winner in the a7r, it's such a pity they decided to bring it to market with such abysmal support, in Singapore when I picked up the a7r they had just the Zoom Kit lens from Sony, or the Zeiss 35, which is a lovely Lens. I think if you stick to the Zeiss Lenses that will become available for the a7r over the next 12 months or so the Sony becomes a viable system, won't replace the 1Dx in any way, but might replace the 5DMK III.
 

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I still don't understand who these full frame mirorrless cameras are aimed at, aside from a hobbyist with a lot of money to burn.

-Average consumer, it is too expensive
-Camera-oriented gadget freak, would probably rather have a cameraphone like the Lumia 1020
-Compact camera fan, the zoom lenses are too big to truck around - all these pics don't look much smaller than a 6D w/ lens.
-Professional, would rather have a real DSLR with viewfinder through lens, more physical buttons, big lens selection, bigger body to grip

So what is left for this camera? Hobbyists with a lot of cash? I guess that is the market they are going for.
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Ruined said:
I still don't understand who these full frame mirorrless cameras are aimed at, aside from a hobbyist with a lot of money to burn.

-Average consumer, it is too expensive
-Camera-oriented gadget freak, would probably rather have a cameraphone like the Lumia 1020
-Compact camera fan, the zoom lenses are too big to truck around - all these pics don't look much smaller than a 6D w/ lens.
-Professional, would rather have a real DSLR with viewfinder through lens, more physical buttons, big lens selection, bigger body to grip

So what is left for this camera? Hobbyists with a lot of cash? I guess that is the market they are going for.
So the same people that buy 70Ds and 6Ds then. You'd never catch Canon testing the market with a new camera and lens mount *koff" EOS M *koff*. The A7 seems to have had a successful launch. If it keeps going then new lenses and new bodies will follow.
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I recently had a play about with an A7 in a store. Seems like a nice, medium sized camera. Decent weight to it and solid build. The only issue I had with it was the EVF. I don't think I could get used to it. It's not as "instant" as OVF. There's a small but noticeable lag, you know you're looking at a screen. Maybe I'm just not used to it but I also don't think it would be all that great for any real demanding work. I guess a lot of landscapers won't care about EVF though.

Do Mirrorless cameras need EVF?? Seems to me if you're gonna view the live image you might as well do it on the larger, clearer and better LCD on the back. I love Magic Lantern's "magic zoom" function on the EOS M. Seriously awesome feature. Don't miss the viewfinder all that much.

Also not related but it was lying next to the A7 was the Nikon Df. Has anyone else tried moving those dials with one hand?? Impossible! They're all locked with a metal pin that you push down, it's a two handed affair!! All advantage of dials LOST! Fail.
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Hi,
Try out the Sony 7R... quite like the build and the design, but don't like to the EVF (especially in low light) and also the shutter release... the first time I press the shutter, I thought something had fallen off the camera... :P I still prefer the feel of my 6D silent shutter.

Have a nice day.
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Ruined said:
I still don't understand who these full frame mirorrless cameras are aimed at, aside from a hobbyist with a lot of money to burn.

-Average consumer, it is too expensive
-Camera-oriented gadget freak, would probably rather have a cameraphone like the Lumia 1020
-Compact camera fan, the zoom lenses are too big to truck around - all these pics don't look much smaller than a 6D w/ lens.
-Professional, would rather have a real DSLR with viewfinder through lens, more physical buttons, big lens selection, bigger body to grip

So what is left for this camera? Hobbyists with a lot of cash? I guess that is the market they are going for.
I bought one. i'm a 32 year old who has been in to photography since learning in a darkroom in the early 90's with my mom's old Minolta.
For years, i was dissatisfied with digital cameras because of their poor image quality and generally stayed away. In 2008 I bought a top of the line Sony Cyber Shot for a 3 month backpacking trip to South America. In 2010 I was in Hong Kong traveling and finally bought a Canon DSLR. I was excited to have better image quality. i was never happy with APS-C, the crop factor, and always wanted the best low light abilities. I traveled for about 10 months using the 550D and taking tons of photos.
After I finished traveling I wanted something to better suit my 24-105 lens, so I traded up to a used 5DC but it always seemed a little antiquated(terrible AF and back screen.)
So, I bought a used D700 and 24-70 2.8 for the AF and image quality. It was simply amazing, but after traveling in Japan for a month last year, my shoulders and back were sore every day from hanging 5 pounds around my neck and shoulders for 8 to 10 hours a day of walking around and sightseeing. Additionally, I like to carry a camera in my bag and when I walk to my work, or come home I like to take some pictures. This is at night and poor image quality annoys me, but my D700 took up my WHOLE backpack and made it a chore to carry, the opposite of fun.
So, I have been eagerly awaiting something that offers top of the line image quality, but in a size that doesn't hurt my shoulders and back. Something that is manageable.
Sure, my D700 is fantastic, and If I had to have the best chance of getting the picture, i'd use that(mostly because of the AF and great ergonomics), but, I simply never carried it in my bag, so I was never able to use it.
If I go to local game, or I just want to go out for a few hour and shoot some pictures, I can use my D700 no problem. but for carrying daily in my backpack, backpacking, hiking, or for my wife, the a7 is 1000x times better.
I don't make money on my photos... but I do enjoy doing it. And I could never say I enjoyed carrying my D700 around.
i bought my a7 last week. I got a small very high quality case for it and it now sits in my backpack every day.
When I go to work, or go out, I ALWAYS have it now. I don't even notice it's in my bag.
So now, photography can be a fun hobby for me again, instead of a (literally) pain in the neck, back and shoulders.

And, this is saying nothing about how AWESOME the a7 is at manual focusing. This is something I loved about my early days but had totally lost using DSLRs. I Love slowing down a little bit, composing my shots, using focus peaking and magnification and focusing myself! Despite it's small size, the a7 does have all the manual controls, knobs and buttons of a normal DSLR. The layout and programmable buttons are far easier and more useful to me than the D700 or 5DC. The Sony a7 is the closest thing to the old school shooting experience I have seen outside of the Leica.

In all, I'd say the a7 is for anyone who appreciates having absolute top image quality but doesn't want to carry a huge DSLR. This could be anyone.
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

EchoLocation said:
Ruined said:
I still don't understand who these full frame mirorrless cameras are aimed at, aside from a hobbyist with a lot of money to burn.

-Average consumer, it is too expensive
-Camera-oriented gadget freak, would probably rather have a cameraphone like the Lumia 1020
-Compact camera fan, the zoom lenses are too big to truck around - all these pics don't look much smaller than a 6D w/ lens.
-Professional, would rather have a real DSLR with viewfinder through lens, more physical buttons, big lens selection, bigger body to grip

So what is left for this camera? Hobbyists with a lot of cash? I guess that is the market they are going for.
I bought one. i'm a 32 year old who has been in to photography since learning in a darkroom in the early 90's with my mom's old Minolta.
For years, i was dissatisfied with digital cameras because of their poor image quality and generally stayed away. In 2008 I bought a top of the line Sony Cyber Shot for a 3 month backpacking trip to South America. In 2010 I was in Hong Kong traveling and finally bought a Canon DSLR. I was excited to have better image quality. i was never happy with APS-C, the crop factor, and always wanted the best low light abilities. I traveled for about 10 months using the 550D and taking tons of photos.
After I finished traveling I wanted something to better suit my 24-105 lens, so I traded up to a used 5DC but it always seemed a little antiquated(terrible AF and back screen.)
So, I bought a used D700 and 24-70 2.8 for the AF and image quality. It was simply amazing, but after traveling in Japan for a month last year, my shoulders and back were sore every day from hanging 5 pounds around my neck and shoulders for 8 to 10 hours a day of walking around and sightseeing. Additionally, I like to carry a camera in my bag and when I walk to my work, or come home I like to take some pictures. This is at night and poor image quality annoys me, but my D700 took up my WHOLE backpack and made it a chore to carry, the opposite of fun.
So, I have been eagerly awaiting something that offers top of the line image quality, but in a size that doesn't hurt my shoulders and back. Something that is manageable.
Sure, my D700 is fantastic, and If I had to have the best chance of getting the picture, i'd use that(mostly because of the AF and great ergonomics), but, I simply never carried it in my bag, so I was never able to use it.
If I go to local game, or I just want to go out for a few hour and shoot some pictures, I can use my D700 no problem. but for carrying daily in my backpack, backpacking, hiking, or for my wife, the a7 is 1000x times better.
I don't make money on my photos... but I do enjoy doing it. And I could never say I enjoyed carrying my D700 around.
i bought my a7 last week. I got a small very high quality case for it and it now sits in my backpack every day.
When I go to work, or go out, I ALWAYS have it now. I don't even notice it's in my bag.
So now, photography can be a fun hobby for me again, instead of a (literally) pain in the neck, back and shoulders.

And, this is saying nothing about how AWESOME the a7 is at manual focusing. This is something I loved about my early days but had totally lost using DSLRs. I Love slowing down a little bit, composing my shots, using focus peaking and magnification and focusing myself! Despite it's small size, the a7 does have all the manual controls, knobs and buttons of a normal DSLR. The layout and programmable buttons are far easier and more useful to me than the D700 or 5DC. The Sony a7 is the closest thing to the old school shooting experience I have seen outside of the Leica.

In all, I'd say the a7 is for anyone who appreciates having absolute top image quality but doesn't want to carry a huge DSLR. This could be anyone.

I also enjoy the odd manual focusing only I went the cheaper route of -

EOS M + FD adaptor + $90 Canon FD 50 1.4 (found on ebay) + Magic Lantern.

I also have zebras and focus peaking and manual only fun but for a fraction of the cost. Sure it's not FF but with a few tweeks in LR images come out just fine.

Just sayin.

Seems a bit strange to buy a $1500 digital camera just to use it as a manual focus only camera. Are you planning on buying additional E mount lenses with it?

Tell you what, have a look at this set of images I took. Some were with the EOM & 22mm f/2 and others were with my 5D2 & ... well if I told you that it would make it too easy. Try and see which ones are which!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zanjum/sets/72157637909346605/
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

EchoLocation said:
In all, I'd say the a7 is for anyone who appreciates having absolute top image quality but doesn't want to carry a huge DSLR. This could be anyone.

+1 exactly!


Sony A7/R compared to Canon EOS 6D (smallest Canon FF-DSLR)

Sony A7R + FE 24-70/4 OSS (SonyZeiss) = 895 g
Canon 6D + EF 24-70/4 IS = 1370 g
Size comparison: http://j.mp/1dDS5hu

Sony A7R + FE 35/2.8 = 527 g
Canon 6D + EF 40/2.8 = 900 g
Size comparison: http://j.mp/1dliIKV
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I don't see from your pictures, with lens attached, how a 3% reduction in depth and 10% reduction width turns a dslr from 'huge' into compact. If anything it looks like it would take up nearly the same amount of space with lens in the bag but have an inferior grip. Less weight is nice, but when you are talking 900g vs 550g with lens, I think even the weakest person would be okay with either.

on the other hand, slap a 70-200 f/2.8 on both and I think you will see the ergonomics of the a7 fail big time!
 
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Ruined said:
I don't see from your pictures, with lens attached, how a 3% reduction in depth and 10% reduction width turns a dslr from 'huge' into compact. If anything it looks like it would take up nearly the same amount of space with lens in the bag but have an inferior grip. Less weight is nice, but when you are talking 900g vs 550g with lens, I think even the weakest person would be okay with either.

on the other hand, slap a 70-200 f/2.8 on both and I think you will see the ergonomics of the a7 fail big time!

Maybe a 70-200/2.8 is not the go-to lens for everybody? Most of my shots are either <100mm (95%) or >200mm (5%). I'm keeping my DSLR for use with telezooms, but I'm happily in the process of swapping my other lenses for an a7 body and I preordered the Zeiss 24-70/4.

EchoLocation has nailed it perfectly. Hike up and down mountains for a whole day and see if you don't notice the difference - and it has nothing to do with physical strength, since you don't hike naked holding an empty backpack.

It might not reflect your own priorities, but for many people it has been a blessing. I don't know why in this forum people think that their experiences/preferences must be the rule for the whole world.
 
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