Off Brand: Sony Announces the A9

[Hflm]

Certainly this is quite the amazing product if we go straight off the specs sheet, but I have to wonder, who the heck is this camera built for? I'm with ahsanford on that one. This is a ton of meat slapped on what appears to be some frail bones. Shooters who require that level of speed are generally wanting a more robust body to fit bigger/faster glass (that sony doesn't really produce). I'm sure that the Sony fans will buy it nonetheless. I'm still quite happy with my DX2 and all the glass available for it.

The only thing about this to be seen is how well the servo AF works in REAL LIFE (off the specs page). 20FPS isn't worth a damn if the AF can't actually keep up with that.

I'll hold my breath and wait for user feedback before I come to any final conclusions on this one

From a7r II stand point, AF is excellent for tracking. A9 seems to be even more superior.

I'll put my preorder this Friday. Will let you guys know real user feedback.

Not really. If the subject approaches you a little too fast the AF can't keep up at all, esp. if you stop down. I use the A7rii and 5div and there is no contest in my experience.

The A9 has some interesting specs. I don't need 20fps (and I doubt most do besides sport pros). But reliable tracking and AF in bad light would be interesting, as I have quite a few excellent Sony FE lenses and would like a silent mode with better capabilities (flicker problems) compared to the A7rii. It is a bit too early to give an opinion. Every time a new Sony A7x camera was introduced, people predicted the doom of Canon based on specs etc. This didn't happen at all, Canon increased market share. So it would be wise to wait and get some important questions answered (e.g. at what point the camera switches from phase detect to contrast detect only (imagine a long lens with TC), what about future long lenses, weather sealing?).

 

[privatebydesign]

Hmm, now they have introduced the 100-400 f4.5-5.6 for $2,500 the $4,500 a9 looks to make a bargain combo of 400mm @ f5.6 for a mere $7,000.

And where is the hate for the fact that there is no 60fps in 4k?

 

[ahsanford]

I'm just amazed that Sony thinks yet another body is the missing piece they need to flip all the pros.

Don't get me wrong, these specs are giggleworthy compared to just about anything else out there. But another new body isn't going to improve their customer service or make pro quality non-focus-by-wire lenses at competitive prices happen.

I wish them well, but they are firehose-blasting 'TECHNOLOGY' at photographers when perhaps they'd like a more robust/reliable/intuitive/flexible/comprehensive system.

- A

 

[Dylan777]

Certainly this is quite the amazing product if we go straight off the specs sheet, but I have to wonder, who the heck is this camera built for? I'm with ahsanford on that one. This is a ton of meat slapped on what appears to be some frail bones. Shooters who require that level of speed are generally wanting a more robust body to fit bigger/faster glass (that sony doesn't really produce). I'm sure that the Sony fans will buy it nonetheless. I'm still quite happy with my DX2 and all the glass available for it.

The only thing about this to be seen is how well the servo AF works in REAL LIFE (off the specs page). 20FPS isn't worth a damn if the AF can't actually keep up with that.

I'll hold my breath and wait for user feedback before I come to any final conclusions on this one

From a7r II stand point, AF is excellent for tracking. A9 seems to be even more superior.

I'll put my preorder this Friday. Will let you guys know real user feedback.

Not really. If the subject approaches you a little too fast the AF can't keep up at all, esp. if you stop down. I use the A7rii and 5div and there is no contest in my experience.

The A9 has some interesting specs. I don't need 20fps (and I doubt most do besides sport pros). But reliable tracking and AF in bad light would be interesting, as I have quite a few excellent Sony FE lenses and would like a silent mode with better capabilities (flicker problems) compared to the A7rii. It is a bit too early to give an opinion. Every time a new Sony A7x camera was introduced, people predicted the doom of Canon based on specs etc. This didn't happen at all, Canon increased market share. So it would be wise to wait and get some important questions answered (e.g. at what point the camera switches from phase detect to contrast detect only (imagine a long lens with TC), what about future long lenses, weather sealing?).

I don't have any issue with tracking moving subject with a7r II:
https://dylannguyen.smugmug.com/Events/2016-08-02-Sony-FE-70-200-f28/

My last DSLR was Canon 1Dx. I'm now 100% FF mirrorless. The chance of me going back to DSLR is .001%

 

[Sharlin]

I'm amused at the number of footnotes. For completeness's sake, missing from the original post:

1. As of April 19th, 2017
2. Approx. effective
3. Electronic shutter mode. At apertures smaller than F11 (F-numbers higher than F11), focus will not track the subject and focus points will be fixed on the first frame. Display updating will be slower at slow shutter speeds.
4. “Hi” continuous shooting mode. The maximum frame rate will depend on the shooting mode and lens used. Visit Sony’s support web page for lens compatibility information.
5. “Hi” continuous shooting mode, compressed RAW, UHS-II memory card. Sony tests.
6. “Hi” continuous shooting mode, UHS-II memory card. Sony tests.
7. Silent shooting is possible when Shutter Type is set to “Electronic” and Audio signals is set to “Off.”
8. 1/32000 shutter speed is available only in the S and M modes. The highest shutter speed in all other modes is 1/16000.
9. CIPA standards. Pitch/yaw stabilization only. Planar T* FE 50mm F1.4 ZA lens. Long exposure NR off.
10. At shutter speeds higher than 1/125 sec, smooth and blackout-free live view images are shown in EVF.
11. Compared to the front-illuminated CMOS image sensor in the α7 II.
12. Display updating will be slower at slow shutter speeds.
13. When the auto or electronic shutter mode is selected the viewfinder frame rate is fixed at 60 fps during continuous shooting.
14. Still images, mechanical shutter: ISO 100 – 51200 expandable to ISO 50 – 204800.
Still images, electronic shutter: ISO 100 – 25600 expandable to ISO 50 – 25600.
Movie recording: ISO 100 – 51200 expandable to ISO 100 – 102400.
15. In full-frame shooting, the angle of view will be narrower under the following conditions: When [File Format] is set to [XAVC S 4K] and [ Record Setting] is set to [30p]
16. Class 10 or higher SDHC/SDXC memory card required for XAVC S format movie recording. UHS Speed Class U3 required for 100Mbps or higher recording.
17. Sound not recorded. Class 10 or higher SDHC/SDXC memory card required.

 

[ahsanford]

I'm amused at the number of footnotes. For completeness's sake, missing from the original post:

3. Electronic shutter mode. At apertures smaller than F11 (F-numbers higher than F11), focus will not track the subject and focus points will be fixed on the first frame. Display updating will be slower at slow shutter speeds.
4. “Hi” continuous shooting mode. The maximum frame rate will depend on the shooting mode and lens used. Visit Sony’s support web page for lens compatibility information.
5. “Hi” continuous shooting mode, compressed RAW, UHS-II memory card. Sony tests.

Yep. Fine print on compressed RAW, 'your AF mileage might vary' and 'framerates are dependent on X, Y, Z...' are common with the A7 rigs and the recent A99 II.

I had to dig eight levels deep in the A99 II manual to piece together that 12 fps + AF constantly working/tracking only works if you can live with compressed RAW files and you are using specific lenses.

Sony is not out to mislead us, but some sexy launch-day specs are only realized in specific circumstances.

- A

 

[NorbR]

The key is really going to be about the readout speed on that new sensor. If it really is as fast as they claim, and therefore if there's no problem using the electronic shutter for fast action, then it does look like a contender for serious sports shooting. But that's still a big if, imho.

And if there's any issue with this, then it's a non-starter. The mechanical shutter is not a viable fall back, as it apparently tops out at 5 fps.

In any case, interesting release, and good to see Sony hunting on Canon's turf. Although I would prefer to see Canon start hunting on Sony's turf, and get going on that mirrorless full frame unicorn 8)

 

[Otara]

"I also legitimately question whether that dainty grip so close to the mount will p--- off folks who principally hook huge / fast lenses on there."

It might, but for the benefits I suspect many will be happy to make the tradeoff, I certainly would if I had the cash, with a tripod and a 500mm+ lens, the grip isnt quite so vital as in other situations and mods would appear in a matter of seconds. I suspect this isnt a 'pro' camera, its a camera for cash rich amateurs, and to make a splash.

And in that regard its going to make waves. Im sticking with Canon for a variety of reasons, but this is the first release thats made me think Sony is really trying.

 

[3kramd5]

I'm amused at the number of footnotes. For completeness's sake, missing from the original post:

I think I had them in the original post before it was edited to change the title and add the photos. Maybe not, but I intended to.

 

[Hflm]

Certainly this is quite the amazing product if we go straight off the specs sheet, but I have to wonder, who the heck is this camera built for? I'm with ahsanford on that one. This is a ton of meat slapped on what appears to be some frail bones. Shooters who require that level of speed are generally wanting a more robust body to fit bigger/faster glass (that sony doesn't really produce). I'm sure that the Sony fans will buy it nonetheless. I'm still quite happy with my DX2 and all the glass available for it.

The only thing about this to be seen is how well the servo AF works in REAL LIFE (off the specs page). 20FPS isn't worth a damn if the AF can't actually keep up with that.

I'll hold my breath and wait for user feedback before I come to any final conclusions on this one

From a7r II stand point, AF is excellent for tracking. A9 seems to be even more superior.

I'll put my preorder this Friday. Will let you guys know real user feedback.

Not really. If the subject approaches you a little too fast the AF can't keep up at all, esp. if you stop down. I use the A7rii and 5div and there is no contest in my experience.

The A9 has some interesting specs. I don't need 20fps (and I doubt most do besides sport pros). But reliable tracking and AF in bad light would be interesting, as I have quite a few excellent Sony FE lenses and would like a silent mode with better capabilities (flicker problems) compared to the A7rii. It is a bit too early to give an opinion. Every time a new Sony A7x camera was introduced, people predicted the doom of Canon based on specs etc. This didn't happen at all, Canon increased market share. So it would be wise to wait and get some important questions answered (e.g. at what point the camera switches from phase detect to contrast detect only (imagine a long lens with TC), what about future long lenses, weather sealing?).

I don't have any issue with tracking moving subject with a7r II:
https://dylannguyen.smugmug.com/Events/2016-08-02-Sony-FE-70-200-f28/

My last DSLR was Canon 1Dx. I'm now 100% FF mirrorless. The chance of me going back to DSLR is .001%

I am not talking about slowly moving subjects at a non-irregular pace. This is quite easy. There are enough reports about this camera's AF in combination with the lenses in keeping up with faster subjects, where the A7rii shows its weakness (esp. from people having switched to A99ii). The A6500 is in a different ballpark and the new A9 probably, too.

 

[ahsanford]

Best Canon burn off of this thread at PP...

 

[Jopa]

Looks decent on paper. IRL - we shall see Sony is always full of surprises...

Seems like they follow Canon's steps by throwing out S-log from this camera.
I'm also wondering if it just made the A99II obsolete? IMHO it would be more logical to make a sports camera in a standard size body, but assuming they don't have any large telephotos for the E-mount it may actually work for now. The A9II is coming in 6 months anyway.

 

[3kramd5]

I'm also wondering if it just made the A99II obsolete?

No more than a 1Dxii makes 5DSr obsolete.

If you need the speed, buy A9. If you need the resolution, buy the A99ii.

 

[ahsanford]

I'm also wondering if it just made the A99II obsolete?

No more than a 1Dxii makes 5DSr obsolete.

If you need the speed, buy A9. If you need the resolution, buy the A99ii.

Side factoid: The A99 II and A9 have about the same MP throughput. 12 fps x 42 MP is not far off from 20 fps x 24 MP.

But why someone who is a detail obsessive would choose a [12 fps rig] + [a pellicle mirror eating a stop of light] + [getting shackled to the A-mount ad infinitum] is utterly beyond me.

I think those who need detail in FF are going to do so with the least strings attached -- they'll either shoot with a 5DS to get the EF portfolio or the A7R II to adapt whatever they want.

- A

 

[Jopa]

I'm also wondering if it just made the A99II obsolete?

No more than a 1Dxii makes 5DSr obsolete.

If you need the speed, buy A9. If you need the resolution, buy the A99ii.

Well, not quite. The A99II shoots 12fps which is the same as the 1dx (1). It also has better ergonomics, more suitable for large lenses, plus a huge potential to crop. Real PDAF capable EV-4. Now we back to the same tiny A7-style body but extra FPS. I'm really confused...

 

[Dylan777]

Certainly this is quite the amazing product if we go straight off the specs sheet, but I have to wonder, who the heck is this camera built for? I'm with ahsanford on that one. This is a ton of meat slapped on what appears to be some frail bones. Shooters who require that level of speed are generally wanting a more robust body to fit bigger/faster glass (that sony doesn't really produce). I'm sure that the Sony fans will buy it nonetheless. I'm still quite happy with my DX2 and all the glass available for it.

The only thing about this to be seen is how well the servo AF works in REAL LIFE (off the specs page). 20FPS isn't worth a damn if the AF can't actually keep up with that.

I'll hold my breath and wait for user feedback before I come to any final conclusions on this one

From a7r II stand point, AF is excellent for tracking. A9 seems to be even more superior.

I'll put my preorder this Friday. Will let you guys know real user feedback.

Not really. If the subject approaches you a little too fast the AF can't keep up at all, esp. if you stop down. I use the A7rii and 5div and there is no contest in my experience.

The A9 has some interesting specs. I don't need 20fps (and I doubt most do besides sport pros). But reliable tracking and AF in bad light would be interesting, as I have quite a few excellent Sony FE lenses and would like a silent mode with better capabilities (flicker problems) compared to the A7rii. It is a bit too early to give an opinion. Every time a new Sony A7x camera was introduced, people predicted the doom of Canon based on specs etc. This didn't happen at all, Canon increased market share. So it would be wise to wait and get some important questions answered (e.g. at what point the camera switches from phase detect to contrast detect only (imagine a long lens with TC), what about future long lenses, weather sealing?).

I don't have any issue with tracking moving subject with a7r II:
https://dylannguyen.smugmug.com/Events/2016-08-02-Sony-FE-70-200-f28/

My last DSLR was Canon 1Dx. I'm now 100% FF mirrorless. The chance of me going back to DSLR is .001%

I am not talking about slowly moving subjects at a non-irregular pace. This is quite easy. There are enough reports about this camera's AF in combination with the lenses in keeping up with faster subjects, where the A7rii shows its weakness (esp. from people having switched to A99ii). The A6500 is in a different ballpark and the new A9 probably, too.

Would bird in flight be considered as easy moving subject? I can share another link BIF with a7r II if you interested.

Sports photographers are more likely NOT going to pick 5ds R to shoot sports. That doesn't mean 5ds R can't track moving subject = for a7r II.

 

[ahsanford]

Sports photographers are more likely NOT going to pick 5ds R to shoot sports. That doesn't mean 5ds R can't track moving subject = for a7r II.

+1. People ought to consider decoupling [frame rate] and [ability to track moving objects] and considering them as separate aspects of performance.

1DX2 = both fps and tracking AF are stellar

My 5D3 = very good AF but at a rather pedestrian 6 fps

A99 II = 12 fps but in some cases the AF is locked after the first frame!

The devil's in the details, but if you are aware of them, you can use your camera to do just about anything.

- A

 

[kaptainkatsu]

Where are super tele lenses? Where is improved UI? Where is good quality tracking AF(even EOS XXXD do decent job of tracking subjects)? Yeah forgot about lockups of Sony cameras when buffer is being cleared.
Atleast they have increased the size of battery and added Dual UHS-II SD slots.

Two slots but only one is UHS-II

 

[expatinasia]

Wow, amazing stats on paper.

I agree with what others have said about the small grip. When you hold the camera for hours at a time with a 400 f/2.8 ii on it you appreciate the large form, grip and easy to rotate from horizontal to vertical with duplicate buttons - even when it is mounted on a monopod.

I am not going to sell my gear for this, but maybe Canon is not targeting me. I am middle aged, so maybe Sony is targeting the newer, younger pros who have not got so much gear. If I were younger and starting out or in my 20s or even 30s I would definitely be looking at this and the glass available.

 

[ScottyP]

Wonder what is the max flash sync speed. They don't mention it in the press release, so do we assume it must be in the normal 1/200 to 1/250 range?