Opinion: A Material Delay – A Likely Reason for Camera Delays and Production Issues

[Canon Rumors]

Canon likely does not do the casting or post machining. If your vendor of choice can't work with a new material, you go to a different vendor.

They do....

Manufacturing facilities | Canon Global

Learn more about Canon's global network of functional and well-organized production facilities.

global.canon

Custom & Medical Contract Manufacturing Partner | Canon Virginia, Inc.

From concept to market, Canon Virginia, Inc. is uniquely qualified to be your outsourced manufacturing partner in a range of industries, including medical.

cvi.canon.com

 

[YuengLinger]

As for the battery grips, any statistics for demand? Not having a local shop (for years now), I rely on trusted members here and youtube videos, as none of the photographers I know personally uses a grip--they just buy the camera that fits their hands, be it a 1D body, an R5, or a 5D body.

I take that back. One friend has an Olympus with a grip! He does have big hands, but he doesn't like carrying heavy lenses, etc.

Back to the R5's grip, youtube and some members here seemed pretty consistent in their dislike of its ergonomics; as I remember, they thought it does little to help in portrait mode.

Could lack of demand have been what drove the early discontinuation?

PS Excellent discussion of the magnesium related issues. Thank you!

 

[Richard CN]

Fascinating article and points to what is likely a major contributor to camera and lens shortages and delays.

I wonder if another possible contributor is a shortage of resistors and capacitors. Even the most modern of electrical circuits are going to use considerable numbers and I have a feeling there are a couple of factories in China which supply everyone. Capacitors also use various rare earth metals of which China is the major producer. Some of the factors which contribute to magnesium shortages could also apply to the production of resistors and capacitors, perhaps even more so when the components are miniaturized.

Both modern cameras and lenses will need resistors and capacitors.

probably not so much because that would be VERY widespread and talked about SMD (or SMT) is so prevalent these days that the entire world would shut down and curl up into a quivering mess if all of a sudden discrete SMDs were unable to be sourced.

They can also be stockpiled too. the pick place machines usually have spools around 500-1000 of each type.

 

[Canon Rumors]

As for the battery grips, any statistics for demand? Not having a local shop (for years now), I rely on trusted members here and youtube videos, as none of the photographers I know personally uses a grip--they just buy the camera that fits their hands, be it a 1D body, an R5, or a 5D body.

I take that back. One friend has an Olympus with a grip! He does have big hands, but he doesn't like carrying heavy lenses, etc.

Back to the R5's grip, youtube and some members here seemed pretty consistent in their dislike of its ergonomics; as I remember, they thought it does little to help in portrait mode.

Could lack of demand have been what drove the early discontinuation?

PS Excellent discussion of the magnesium related issues. Thank you!

I did ask a USA retailer about that. They sell. They were important for total operating margin on Canon camera SKUs. Most retailers are losing money in the US just selling the camera. It's probably the same everywhere.

 

[AJ]

Ironic, given that magnesium is the fifth most abundant element on earth and accounts for 2% of its mass.

 

[Berowne]

Ironic, given that magnesium is the fifth most abundant element on earth and accounts for 2% of its mass.

But not as metallic Magnesium. There is a lot of Magnesium everywhere. Most Magnesium is produced by a special process, the Pidgeon process, which uses the mineral Dolomite. Twenty years ago, the US was the main producer, but China learned to produce Magnesium with more cost efficiency, so they became defacto Monopolist, when the US-industry gave up producing Magnesium. Then China decided to reduce production and took all as hostages who need the Metall.

 

[Dragon]

Perfect time to move to carbon fiber and change the hype.

 

[Zadak]

I think it makes a lot of sense. A month ago I was in Japan and the 1.4x extenders were out of stock everywhere for weeks. Somehow managed to find it but all the major retailers (Yodobashi and BIC Camera) in the major cities were all out

 

[AlanF]

I did ask a USA retailer about that. They sell. They were important for total operating margin on Canon camera SKUs. Most retailers are losing money in the US just selling the camera. It's probably the same everywhere.

They are not losing in the UK on the bodies with the price gouging here.

 

[AJ]

But not as metallic Magnesium. There is a lot of Magnesium everywhere. Most Magnesium is produced by a special process, the Pidgeon process, which uses the mineral Dolomite. Twenty years ago, the US was the main producer, but China learned to produce Magnesium with more cost efficiency, so they became defacto Monopolist, when the US-industry gave up producing Magnesium. Then China decided to reduce production and took all as hostages who need the Metall.

Yes, most magnesium is in bonds with other elements to form various minerals.
Dolomite is (Ca, Mg) CO3 - alternating calcium and magnesium ions tied to carbonate.
I live in Calgary, Canada. Some distance to the west of here is a deposit of almost pure magnesite: MgCO3. The minerals in deposit has very little calcium. This deposit is mined , and I know the miners (Baymag) reject rock that has a small fraction of dolomite in it and isn't pure magnesite.
I would think this mining operation is probably pretty small-scale compared to operations in China.

 

[Canon Rumors]

They are not losing in the UK on the bodies with the price gouging here.

Thats not the retailers. Canon camera SKUs sold at MSRP are between 10-14% pretty much everywhere.

 

[josephandrews222]

Thats not the retailers. Canon camera SKUs sold at MSRP are between 10-14% pretty much everywhere.

...(and to sort of repeat myself): this information is why I read CR--I learn something, from people who know things.

I just wish you didn't know what you knew about the demise of the M.

In fact, I wish you were wrong about that!

Thanks for posting.

 

[John Wilde]

It certainly is strange that Canon, Sony, and Nikon haven't released a single new camera model in 2024. Some kind of common materials/parts shortage must be going on.

 

[Martin0815]

In the graph prices went down the last months. For me this clearly indicates that there is no shortage of Magnesium on the market. Otherwise prices would spike (again).

I fully agree with this view, from the graph showing price over time the Magnesium price is since mid 2022 back to 'normal' of roughly 25'000 CNY/T (when including normal inflation over 4 years since 2020), then decreasing to now roughly 19'500 CNY/T - CNY is Chinese Yuan (or Renminbi) and T is ton = 1000kg.
This means the current price of 19'500 CNY/T converted to USD at 1 CNY = 0.14 USD is about 2'743 USD / ton or less than 3 USD per kg Magnesium.

In a camera body or a lens less than 1kg of Magnesium is used, so less than 3 USD for a camera body or lens.

Clearly, less than 3 USD cost per camera body or lens does not indicate any shortage or supply issue at all.

 

[Richard CN]

I fully agree with this view, from the graph showing price over time the Magnesium price is since mid 2022 back to 'normal' of roughly 25'000 CNY/T (when including normal inflation over 4 years since 2020), then decreasing to now roughly 19'500 CNY/T - CNY is Chinese Yuan (or Renminbi) and T is ton = 1000kg.
This means the current price of 19'500 CNY/T converted to USD at 1 CNY = 0.14 USD is about 2'743 USD / ton or less than 3 USD per kg Magnesium.

In a camera body or a lens less than 1kg of Magnesium is used, so less than 3 USD for a camera body or lens.

Clearly, less than 3 USD cost per camera body or lens does not indicate any shortage or supply issue at all.

The price may have gone down, but it still may be difficult to get consistently. There's a lot of new internal demand for China's magnesium alloy products. EVs, spacecraft/launch, and military applications are far too numerous to mention, not to mention that the camera companies could be still facing production backlogs because they couldn't get it reliably over the past 2 years.

But I'll always welcome new ideas though, what would impact all aspects of Canon's manufacturing and ability to fabricate lenses, battery grips, cameras?

there's very little in common there - and Canon's fabrication is mostly done via automated assembly.

 

[David - Sydney]

The price may have gone down, but it still may be difficult to get consistently. There's a lot of new internal demand for China's magnesium alloy products. EVs, spacecraft/launch, and military applications are far too numerous to mention, not to mention that the camera companies could be still facing production backlogs because they couldn't get it reliably over the past 2 years.

there is always a time lag between spot price decrease (associated with more availability), shipping and processing into metal and then to a manufactured item.
As @Martin0815 says, the amount of magnesium per body is pretty small.... it is like saying that lithium prices/availabilty for batteries affects the supply of lithium for pharmaceutical usage. Olive oil (and cocoa) shortages have pushed up prices dramatically but you can still get them in quantity.

But I'll always welcome new ideas though, what would impact all aspects of Canon's manufacturing and ability to fabricate lenses, battery grips, cameras?

I'm at a loss as well. If magnesium is an ongoing issue with permanently increased pricing then alternative materials will be qualified for future use. Good example is cobalt for batteries... scarce, expensive and controversial meaning that moving away from cobalt in batteries is a good idea.
It is fascinating to me how EV drivers are very interested in battery chemistries now especially as LFP charging strategies are different from others:
- charging to 100% has no longevity impact vs NMC/NCA
- Should charge the LFP battery to 100% once a week to recalibrate the Battery Management System and to balance the charge across all cells

 

[AUGS]

I'm sure researching new materials is an ongoing thing.

Canon is a manufacturing company... so they R&D a lot of their own production tools and processes. You're not doing that in a couple of years for a quick pivot.

Retooling is not a flick the switch sort of thing. Others with more knowledge can chime in.

Note: This is about a design change after design freeze. If this is considered from the very start of the design process, much of this is not relevant. However, changing from a known and well understood material to something else has a learning curve that must be factored into the project timeline.

Retooling for alternate material(s) is one step. All materials shrink in the mould when changing state from liquid to solid. And every material shrinks slightly different, so existing tools and processes (as highlighted earlier in the aluminium/magnesium comparison table) may not be re-usable, so the lead time needs to be considered.
One of the things that isn't necessarily considered is the re-verification of all the system design requirements that may be required after the alternate "design embodiment" is put in place. For example, transport and storage, operation at temperature, weather sealing, dare I say it - shock and vibration and drop testing, re-certification (if necessary). These all take additional time to any retooling and/or material process.

 

[Ph0t0]

I just hope that Canon gets enough magnesium and EU relaxes its regulations, so that they can finally release the high megapixel camera of my dream.
The supply shortages and strict EU rules really delayed the announcement of that that one...

 

[David - Sydney]

Addressing future supply and current geo-political issues
- Magnesium is the eighth most abundant element in Earth's crust (about 2.5 percent) and is, after aluminium and iron, the third most plentiful structural metal.
- Australia has traditionally been one of the world's "dig it and ship it" mineral suppliers but not processing ore into metals.
- With the risk of geo-political supply chain disruption especially for critical minerals for renewable manufacturing, there are projects and funding to do more on-shore processing... especially for green processing using green hydrogen for energy (solar for electrolysis)
- Magnesium (Magnesite) is on the critical minerals list for most countries (not India for some reason).
https://www.industry.gov.au/publications/critical-minerals-strategy-2023-2030
- For a long time China's lower labour cost and health/safety/emissions regulations have allowed cheap processing which has decimated processing in other countries. Comparative advantage theory works well to decrease costs on the assumption of free global trade.
https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-i...ver-critical-minerals-poses-unacceptable-risk

Magnesite:
284,000kt Australia reserves
6,800,000kt global reserves
500kt Australia production
25,000 global production

Russia has by far the world's leading deposits with China being #3 and Australia #4. Russia isn't likely to supply the west for a long time to come.
Note the site allows one view before going behind a paywall.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270447/distribution-of-magnesium-reserves-worldwide-by-country/#:~:text=Russia has by far the,magnesium oxide as of 2023.

It may also be possible for Australian companies to access the US Energy Act 2020 for funding friendshoring of critical raw materials
When companies like Tesla negotiate with raw lithium miners to reserve capacity then you know that they are really concerned for the long term.

 

[AUGS]

Perfect time to move to carbon fiber and change the hype.

Possibly. Carbon fibre is great in a lot of applications, but it does fail catastrophically and it can also be a very manual process to lay the fibre matt for intricate design shapes. For a camera body, I can see it being used. Maybe less so for a lens where there are moving elements in the optical path and axial alignment under all environmental conditions is critical, especially a long lens with big elements. I'm sure these can be designed out, but may take some development.