Opinion: EOS-M transition that never was

[Dragon]

The 7DII had the 5-series quality build and ergonomics and a faster fps and much more pixel dense sensor than the then latest 5DIII. It was used by pros like Glen Bartley on CR as well as enthusiasts. The Nikon D500 APS-C is one of the best birding DSLRs made with similar build quality. Anything that an APS-C can do can be done by an FF with 2.56x the pixels and a crop mode. The main difference is that the APS-C is cheaper. It would seem that both Canon and Nikon have decided to concentrate more on the cheapness of APS-C than having them of the highest quality. By the way, the RF 100-500mm on my R7 gives the resolution of that lens plus a 1.4x TC on my R5.

Agreed. I use my R7 on the RF 800 f/11 in the same way. I will say that there isn't a material difference in either IQ or AF performance between the R7 without the TC and the R5 with the TC and 1 stop higher ISO, but losing the extra length of the TC is convenient. Mostly, I just keep the 800 on the R7 so I have "reach at the ready" and keep the RF 24-200 on the R5 for maximum flexibility. All my other glass gets used with some pre-planning. In the special case of the RF 800 (and 600) f/11, the crop frame is an advantage because of the limited AF area with that lens, but generally speaking, I would rather have a high res FF for the same pixel resolution with a wider field of view.

 

[alan sh]

I am one of those who have jumped ship to Fuji. I was waiting and waiting for an IBIS M5/50 and it never came. So, I now have an X-T5 and a nice selection of lenses that more than match the M series ones (and I had/have all of them).

Alan

 

[AlanF]

Agreed. I use my R7 on the RF 800 f/11 in the same way. I will say that there isn't a material difference in either IQ or AF performance between the R7 without the TC and the R5 with the TC and 1 stop higher ISO, but losing the extra length of the TC is convenient. Mostly, I just keep the 800 on the R7 so I have "reach at the ready" and keep the RF 24-200 on the R5 for maximum flexibility. All my other glass gets used with some pre-planning. In the special case of the RF 800 (and 600) f/11, the crop frame is an advantage because of the limited AF area with that lens, but generally speaking, I would rather have a high res FF for the same pixel resolution with a wider field of view.

I likewise prefer FF with same pixel density. For that reason, I sold my 7DII and bought a 5DSR.

 

[Bob Howland]

Releasing the RF mount in 2012 would have been a huge mistake as it would have signaled the end of FF SLRs long before the technology was in place to make a remotely competitive mirrorless body. The small M mount was not threatening to the FF SLR lineup and it gave Canon a platform to experiment with mirrorless. Yes, there are a few folks upset with their M lens investment, but the number is small and if they really need the money, eBay is there to help and M lens values have not materially dropped.

In 2012, in addition to the M, the 1Dx, 5D3 and 6D were introduced. I doubt that anybody would have thought that these cameras were obsolete.

 

[Dragon]

In 2012, in addition to the M, the 1Dx, 5D3 and 6D were introduced. I doubt that anybody would have thought that these cameras were obsolete.

You might not have thought so, but if the R mount had been introduced at that point, there would have been many press pundits speculating on the death of DSLRs and the M introduction induced little, if any, of that speculation. Particularly in Japan, the old saw "your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear what you say" is always relevant. I think the M strategy was right for the time, and frankly the number of folks negatively impacted by its end is likely pretty small. I have all the M glass. I am not upset and I still use and will continue to use my M6 II for situations where portability is paramount. If the camera dies, I am confident that I can find another M6 II for the foreseeable future.

 

[David - Sydney]

the LP-E17 was in the EOS-RP. I never heard of any issues with it and larger lenses, same with the DSLR's that used the LP-E17.

First time using the RP for milky way timelapses and it handled over 3hrs without external power. For longer ones I would have used external power anyway so no complaints so far about battery life.

 

[David - Sydney]

I'm going to take your idea and find a coat with bigger pockets or maybe sew a big pocket in an old coat

Just get a Scott eVest... lots of internal big pockets. A travel vest make a good investment when airlines check carry-on weight

 

[EricN]

Just get a Scott eVest... lots of internal big pockets. A travel vest make a good investment when airlines check carry-on weight

exactly. I had to pay approximately $300 because they weighed my backpack

 

[David - Sydney]

The data are from BCN, they aggregate sales data from a large fraction of Japanese retailers and post weekly and monthly product rankings and annual brand rankings for many types of electronics.

Amazon’s rankings are something of a black box.

Given the recent increase in ILC sales to China, any data on that market will bend the needle on overall global demand and usage. China data tends to be a black box in general though.

 

[David - Sydney]

Canon gets to make the decision. They have discontinued the M series. What do you suggest we consumers can do, other than just ‘deal with it’?

Sure, we can argue about the reasons. We can make guesses based on BCN or Amazon sales rankings. But Canon has the data.

Sure, we can complain and moan. There seem to be a lot of experts at that on this forum. But what, do you think if we complain loudly enough then Canon will bring back the M series? Lol.

You can either deal with it, or refuse to accept reality. Obviously, we have some experts at the latter on this forum as well.

There has been examples (eg TV shows, camera film, confectionery makers etc) where complaints from the public/media have changed a corporation's decisions but I agree that they are rare.

 

[David - Sydney]

exactly. I had to pay approximately $300 because they weighed my backpack

When I am carrying ~15kg in my backpack of camera bodies, lenses, batteries/powerbanks/chargers and MBP, then the vest is brilliant for this step.
After security, just repack it.... it all fits okay there and even in a dash-8 overhead compartment that I recently went to Broken Hill in.
I am happy to pay more for extra weight eg 10kgs where the carrier provides the option but most don't.
Of course, my wife hates it with a passion but it did rescue an Iceland trip as my luggage (with tripod/filters etc) was lost for 11 days.

 

[David - Sydney]

Are you a seasoned traveler? You can take TWO bags in the cabin...plenty of room for all your clothes, toothpaste, and a few choice RF L lenses and a body. No need to bring your consumer kit...let grandma use it.

I've traveled the world and worked for years on 3 continents and the only time you can take 2 bags in carryon is in business/1st class (sometimes premium economy but mostly not). Some carriers have a "plus one" eg laptop case/handbag, suit carrier (or in my case = my m3p drone bag) and some have a strict 7kg total weight. Some tier 1 carriers are a little more lenient on carryon weight/size and others are super strict.

Ultimately you don't want to be pulled up with carry-on problems where you can help it. The worst scenario is connecting flights where 2 different carriers have different rules for drones in checked or in carryon. Batteries are always carryon. Iceland air and some small planes (eg Dash 8) etc have even reduced carry-on size bag restrictions which are particularly painful.

 

[David - Sydney]

I don't claim to be a great photographer, but I have received 6 million views of my images...I do not know what that means...I tend to ignore this.

I'll bite... what's your flickr account?

Mine is in my signature. 10.5m views, 9.5k followers and 212 Explored so far. The numbers don't mean much given algorithms etc although bots don't seem to dominate so much these days. Explore isn't a measure of quality of course. My first one was of a dinosaur at a Disney parade when I had no idea what Explore was. It is nice that the shots get some visibility and Flickr is much better than Instagram/FB etc to show an image that isn't compressed or crushed.

I'm just a reasonably cashed up amateur that likes a range of photographic genres. Milky Way astro landscapes are my current interest!

 

[David - Sydney]

The M6 II still is....but also is inferior to modern Sony small formfactor cameras.

View attachment 212349

M6 II with RF Mount, tight fit but possible.

I do love what Sigma made possible with their fp body... it is basically just the mount on the front!

 

[EricN]

When I am carrying ~15kg in my backpack of camera bodies, lenses, batteries/powerbanks/chargers and MBP, then the vest is brilliant for this step.
After security, just repack it.... it all fits okay there and even in a dash-8 overhead compartment that I recently went to Broken Hill in.
I am happy to pay more for extra weight eg 10kgs where the carrier provides the option but most don't.
Of course, my wife hates it with a passion but it did rescue an Iceland trip as my luggage (with tripod/filters etc) was lost for 11 days.

I can imagine it would be annoying to wait while you pack everything while all the normal people are moving along for her if she doesn't really understand our need (or I guess want) to to have so much photography things.

Appolgies for getting further off topic: Has security ever examined any of your lenses? It's only happened once and I can't really think of any reason except if it was a new technician who's not seen many lenses.

 

[EricN]

There has been examples (eg TV shows, camera film, confectionery makers etc) where complaints from the public/media have changed a corporation's decisions but I agree that they are rare.

I have the sense canon is not a company that will bend to complaints until it is a very high percentage of us upset about something. Some people might say there was a lot of complaints about the R5's 8k video and then they improved it with the firmware and then offered the R5c, but I'm not convinced that they weren't planning on those two things already.

 

[P-visie]

Has security ever examined any of your lenses? It's only happened once and I can't really think of any reason except if it was a new technician who's not seen many lenses.

Yes, that sometimes happens. A security person once explained to me that some lenses are opaque on the scanner because of the composition of the glass in the lens. If I remember correctly it was the EF 24-70mm f2.8 II.

 

[David - Sydney]

I can imagine it would be annoying to wait while you pack everything while all the normal people are moving along for her if she doesn't really understand our need (or I guess want) to to have so much photography things.

When I say that I repack after security... I don't mean at the end of the scanner. I move to a separate area to do it. I don't hold up anyone. I do seem to be targeted for explosives/drugs testing though. It can be advantageous to be slow picking up all your gear from the conveyor until you see someone else getting checked

Appolgies for getting further off topic: Has security ever examined any of your lenses? It's only happened once and I can't really think of any reason except if it was a new technician who's not seen many lenses.

Security hasn't had any issues with my lenses but I heard recently of one time that someone had to show each lens moving (rings/opening/closing etc). I am guessing (like you) that the airport didn't have good scanning equipment but could be wrong. I haven't traveled into "difficult" countries where the security would be extreme.

 

[David - Sydney]

Yes, that sometimes happens. A security person once explained to me that some lenses are opaque on the scanner because of the composition of the glass in the lens. If I remember correctly it was the EF 24-70mm f2.8 II.

lucky I don't have that one then

 

[EricN]

I do love what Sigma made possible with their fp body... it is basically just the mount on the front!

It's a unique design, isn't it?