Sony's New a7RII Camera Delivers World's First Back-Illuminated FF Sensor

[9VIII]

i seen the 5Ds and i thought nice 50MP but the ISO 6400 limit is crap, so i was waiting for the 5D4 with lower MP but at least better ISO and maybe better DR. Now this A7rII comes out with 42mp,high iso,DR,4K video,1080p 60fps etc why on earth would i pay 3700$ when i can pay 3200 and get a better product?

I have no idea what the 5D4 can do that will stop me from buying a A7rII but seeing as the 5Ds would have been the best camera to put BSI into i doubt Canon will do anything new on the 5D4 so it looks like A7rII will beat this camera to.

when the 5ds came many of you said there is no point in the Pentax medium format now because 5ds does everything it does but cheaper, but when its another company that has better product and cheaper too nope Canon is still the best because the COMPANY makes more PROFIT.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-5ds-sr/5

I think people are reading way too much into the high ISO limitations on the 5Ds. When I compare it to the D810 at ISO 12800 the noise pattern looks the same or better in some cases, and definitely pulls through more detail.
It could also be argued that shooting higher than ISO 12800 is a waste of time anyway. Once your dynamic range drops below 8 stops you're no longer filling the basic range of a JPEG image, the only cameras that can do that are the A7S and the 1DX (It's also surprising how many cameras can't even keep 8 stops at ISO 12800, e.g. the D810 and A7R).
http://www.sensorgen.info

 

[suburbia]

...new sensor tech is nice to have, but not that vital as maybe 5 years ago...

And, that sums it all up.

I'm pleased that Sony, Nikon and Canon all continue to innovate. (and they all do, despite the wailing of the anyone-but-Canon Fanbois.)

But, I made a rational decision to invest in a system for the long haul. It does what I need it to do and my own shortcomings far exceed any shortcomings of the system itself. The technology will improve over time and I will upgrade as I need/want to. I don't have unlimited funds, so as long of the system continues to advance at a pace faster than my bank account, I see no reason to worry about whose technology is five steps ahead in a 5,000 mile march.

Perfect post. New technology that directly or indirectly impacts photography is obviously interesting especially when it reaches product stage. I was hoping to hear more about this backlit technology (that bizarrely everyone suddenly is idolising as if we all knew about it before) and its future practical possibilities and likely spread of use (who really needs short-lived technical gimmicks and hacks).

But it always just descends into this utterly distasteful materialistic obsession and mud-slinging hysteria over a desperation to (imagine) upgrading. This happens nearly every model that comes out from multiple manufacturers (no names mentioned but it seems to be the same people and suspiciously new accounts that spring from nowhere)!

As if everyone can or even should be on the edge of their seats waiting to throw honest money at whatever model upgrade happens to appear that month or even year. It is all very morally dubious let alone considering how long the art/hobby/creative form of photography has been around and the basics of its technology I imagined we would be above all that.

 

[bholliman]

Said it before, will say it again – you can't equate best technology with success. In fact, the track record in most industries is that "best" technology generally loses out to "good enough" technology in the marketplace. (Ask Sony about Betamax or maybe a more appropriate example might be how cell phones have become the dominant picture-taking devices.

It great to see any company innovating. I'm happy when Sony innovates. I'm happy when Nikon innovates. I'm happy when Canon innovates. It moves the standards ahead and I will ultimately benefit. But, I also don't get that excited about individual technology steps. It's not a race where the "best" technology carries some prize. It's the overall product that people buy.

Given the price of this new camera and the fact that I don't own a single lens that fits it, I can't really give it much more than a "meh." But then again, I have a long list of existing Canon products that I would like to buy first, so by the time I can consider a replacement for my 5DIII, I imagine the 5DIV or even 5DV might be available.

+1

I'm always glad to see technology improvements regardless of who they are coming from. It raises the bar for the photography equipment I'll use at some point in the future. The BSI sensor sounds like it will open doors for improved high ISO image quality, which is definitely a good thing.

That said, I'm happy with my Canon gear, I'm still not using it to anywhere near its potential. The a7rII, 5Ds, D820 or any new body announced are just steps forward. I'm certainly not going to change systems for one new body announcement. There is much more to a "system" than just the camera sensor and Canon, Nikon and others will continue to march out new products so the latest and greatest product today will be yesterday's news in 6 months or a year.

 

[expatinasia]

The BSI sensor sounds like it will open doors for improved high ISO image quality, which is definitely a good thing.

Perhaps someone can help me understand here. Didn't the RX line used to have BSI sensors, but with the RX10 II and RX100 IV have now moved to stacked sensors? So, which is better? Is it just that stacked sensors have not made it to full frame yet, or is BSI better and if so why did the RX line change?

 

[fragilesi]

...now why did you have to go and ruin a perfectly entertaining thread with sensible, mature and balanced reasoning!? Don't worry, I'll salvage it and get it back on topic right now by stating that Sony is the best thing that happened to photography since ever, Canon is as good as gone and Neuro smells bad

Sorry, thanks for stopping me and getting things back on track again

 

[neuroanatomist]

Hogwash. Sony could stick their FF BSI EXMORtastic sensor inside a camera body made from recycled Cheerios box cutouts with an aluminum foil pinhole lens and a keychain penlight flash and it would still outperform any Canon body/lens/Speedlite combo ever made. Period.

Wake up and smell the photons, people...it's all about the sensor.

;D

 

[neuroanatomist]

The BSI sensor sounds like it will open doors for improved high ISO image quality, which is definitely a good thing.

Perhaps someone can help me understand here. Didn't the RX line used to have BSI sensors, but with the RX10 II and RX100 IV have now moved to stacked sensors? So, which is better? Is it just that stacked sensors have not made it to full frame yet, or is BSI better and if so why did the RX line change?

Stacked is better. Sony could bring stacked sensor technology to their APS-C and FF lineup, but they're just milking the outdated BSI technology for all it's worth, holding out on their customers, crippling the a7RII with antiquated sensor tech. Innovation fail!!

;D

 

[benperrin]

But it always just descends into this utterly distasteful materialistic obsession and mud-slinging hysteria over a desperation to (imagine) upgrading. This happens nearly every model that comes out from multiple manufacturers (no names mentioned but it seems to be the same people and suspiciously new accounts that spring from nowhere)!

I think people just want to feel justified in their decision to purchase new equipment. People think that because they think a certain way that others should also think that way as well. But we all have different needs and wants and should all celebrate when new tech comes our way. At the end of the day this new tech doesn't make ourselves or our current gear any less useful.

 

[fragilesi]

umm no one says Canon lens are bad everyone agrees they are great just the Camera is lacking compared to the competition right now, and the fact you can use your Canon lenses on a amazing camera like the A7rII is awesome.

Ummm, that's exactly what I was saying (apart from the "amazing" praise heaped on a camera yet to be tried) . . . The problem is that people somehow equate that to Canon not being innovative when clearly they are miles ahead in some areas. The field is simply too broad to sustain the R&D and keep upgrading production facilities to be best across such a vast range and make money.

I just don't see why anyone would get a 5Ds over this camera its better in every way except that it has 8MP less. Battery life is a issue but since the people said the 5Ds is for landscape and studio i doubt its a big deal especially when it has better ISO,DR,VIDEO etc with ability to use Canon glass for 700$ less.

So you don't see why someone would get a camera that almost none of us customers have tried over one that pretty much no-one has tried? Odd how people (on both sides) will take a marketing announcement as gospel when it suits them but brush over respected reviewers when they do not . . .

I just bought a Canon 11-24 F4 a very nice lens just wish the Canon was doing what Sony is doing right now with their cameras.

Or maybe that Sony was doing with its lenses what Canon is with theirs?

 

[neuroanatomist]

On a serious note, I do agree that these developments are a very good thing for all of us. Choice is good!

The lack of a sensor feature, the lack of a particular lens in a lineup, etc., drive choices. People will choose the system(s) that best meet their needs.

 

[Hillsilly]

Stacked is better. Sony could bring stacked sensor technology to their APS-C and FF lineup, but they're just milking the outdated BSI technology for all it's worth, holding out on their customers, crippling the a7RII with antiquated sensor tech. Innovation fail!!

;D

Just wait a few months when the Fuji's organic sensors starts hitting the streets. Then we'll some real innovation.

 

[bdunbar79]

And then everyone will rave about how Fuji's sensor is so much superior to the Sony crap right now and Sony better get their act together. Yes, it'll be great!

 

[weixing]

Hi,

Stacked is better. Sony could bring stacked sensor technology to their APS-C and FF lineup, but they're just milking the outdated BSI technology for all it's worth, holding out on their customers, crippling the a7RII with antiquated sensor tech. Innovation fail!!

;D

Just wait a few months when the Fuji's organic sensors starts hitting the streets. Then we'll some real innovation.

So does the sensors "grow" as time goes by?? You buy a APS-C sensor camera and after a few years, it became a FF sensor camera... if so, it's a real innovation and I might get one... ha ha ha

Have a nice day.

 

[bdunbar79]

Exactly. I've never heard of a pro sports photographer shooting raw at an event as they (nor the people that get them) do not have the time to do the raw conversion. It needs to be baked and ready to crop/print straight away. Bigger files = longer to transfer, longer to load to work with and so on.

Not all on the side lines are shooting for the wires. Some will be shooting for print magazines or such like where time is not such an issue. Some will also have an editor or colleague in the media centre and someone comes around occasionally and collects the CF cards so there are quite a few that shoot in RAW (or at least a mix of RAW and jpeg), it just depends on who you are working with, your company and the event you are at.

But this A7RII is not made for sports anyway.

I still find the tech interesting, but for me it is the RX100 IV which I am very eager to try out and see what the new stacked sensor tech in that can do, as well as it its 16 fps and other cool features, all of which can fit easily inside my pocket without pulling my trousers down!

It is nitpicking, but absolutely true. When I'm not shooting for the main page or website gallery, but rather good prints to be used on bigger websites, such as the NCAA or Big Ten websites, or publications for the universities, then I have plenty of time to shoot RAW and edit. I don't like to because I shoot every game the same, but I do it anyway because I want those to look best. For regular games where I have to have a picture for the main page with the story and an associated photo gallery, then it is easier and faster to shoot jpg because then it's just a matter of sorting.

Plenty of times SID's will come around and collect my CF cards but that time interval is set up before the games. In those cases jpg too.

I'm not shooting in big enough events like the SI shooters were where they shoot RAW, someone comes and gets the card, and edits the RAW files. I know they do that at big pro events and know people who do it that way.

Digital gave a lot of flexibility I suppose.

 

[Hillsilly]

So does the sensors "grow" as time goes by?? You buy a APS-C sensor camera and after a few years, it became a FF sensor camera... if so, it's a real innovation and I might get one... ha ha ha

Have a nice day.

LOL. Still, I've heard many FF users proclaim to medium format users that it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. I don't know why FF users are so sensitive about the size of their sensor.

 

[Maiaibing]

Almost too good to be true. 40 MPIX, all lenses stabilized, can use Canon lenses, humongous high iso, 4k, wifi, iphone/pad integration. The list just goes on.

My upgrade path seems clear now. Got a really cheap 6D body today (to supplement and eventually replace my aging 5DII's). SONY next stop if reviews confirm this fantastic leap forward also when it comes to continuing to use my fav Canon lenses.

Of course Canon may perform a miracle with the 5DIV - however I am betting against this now. I will have to see to believe it. Fortunately my fav lenses will still be around if it happens.

Times are good for us buyers!

 

[Eldar]

My supplier over here is not able to take my order yet, but I decided to get one and compare it to the 5DSR myself. With an adaptor I can use all my Canon and Zeiss lenses. Some of the issues I had with the A7R seems to have been addressed, so it became too tempting.

Hopefully Canon jumped in their chair when they saw the specification and will act on it. With the number (and quality) of new lenses coming out and the ability to use almost any lens with an adaptor, even the system faithfuls may consider this one.

 

[aj1575]

The timing of the announcement was definitly great; just at the time when the 5Ds hits the shelf.

I think the A7 will do great over at DXOmark. I'm looking forward to the comparison at DPreview, which is closer to the real world. There I was not overwhelmed by the performace of the "old" A7 variants. There is definitly a measurable difference between the sensors; my big question is always, how much of this translates into values that Count inreal world shooting.

Anyway, new tech is good, and gives us the possibility to choose whatever we want.

 

[Dylan777]

On a serious note, I do agree that these developments are a very good thing for all of us. Choice is good!

The lack of a sensor feature, the lack of a particular lens in a lineup, etc., drive choices. People will choose the system(s) that best meet their needs.

agreed. Will see how A-mount lenses + A to e-mount adaptor works with a7rII. One thing for sure, it no longer compact.

 

[aj1575]

On a serious note, I do agree that these developments are a very good thing for all of us. Choice is good!

The lack of a sensor feature, the lack of a particular lens in a lineup, etc., drive choices. People will choose the system(s) that best meet their needs.

agreed. Will see how A-mount lenses + A to e-mount adaptor works with a7rII. One thing for sure, it no longer compact.

But it is mirrorless and mirrorless is the future!

It makes completly sense to carry around adaptors to attach ever possible lens to your mirrorles, somehow you got to use up the size you freed with going mirrorles.