The Canon Cinema C80 is coming this week

[HarryFilm]

It has anamorphic support

Technically, ALL CAMERAS have Anamorphic Support! You just need a 2.4:1 Anamorphic Lens and Black Magic Resolve, Adobe Premiere, Avid, Vegas, Corel VideoStudio, Apple Final Cut Pro, etc. and add a Lanczos-3 Resizing Filter on your timeline that has its NEW frame size set to that unsqueezed anamorphic frame on the horizontal axis using the most recent SMPTE 195-1993 Anamorphic Standard at 2.39x of recorded horizontal resolution which UNSQUEEZES a 16:9 Anamorphic video capture out to Super-WideScreen 4588 by 1080 pixels (HDTV), 9,178 by 2160 Pixels (4K UHDTV) or 18,356 by 4320 pixels (8K QUHDTV).

KABOOM! After expanding your recorded Anamorphic image you can now EXPORT your true-super-wide-screen size timeline to an MP4 or other file type and hope to the almighty that your MP4 player can playback such insane video resolutions at the full 24, 25, 30, 50, 60 or even 120 fps frame rates! And hopefully you have ALSO purchased a high-end 2.4:1 super-wide-screen video display or computer monitor in order to see your finishe work at the proper fully-unsqueezed 2.4:1 aspect ratio!

V

 

[Canon Rumors]

It's like 90% of the c400 lol. Most of Canon's markets are cool without the extra features. This is the smartest move Canon has made sense the c70. I canceled my c400 order for this.

I have started to look for abused used C70s, now a bit of GAS has taken over with the C80. I must resist it, since I'll have no idea what I'm doing with either camera and it's for educational purposes.

 

[HarryFilm]

Sorry about my ignorance but what for is the SDI? Why would I need it if I have already an XLR?
Thanks,

SDI (Serial Digital Interface) is/was a standard using old-style BNC (Bayonet Connectors) on heavy well-shielded cables to send COMPONENT RGB or YCbCr video signals out to professional recording decks usually being super-high data rate digital tape or big hard drive arrays! The signal was able to be kept as clean/little-noise as possible and SDI is mostly used in Sports Stadiums, Concert Venues or in Closed Circuit Television systems for commercial/industrial sites connecting high-end SDTV, HDTV or 4K/8K cameras to a central location for recording and long-term storage.

They have updated the standard to include fibre optic BUT SDI is now being overshadowed by 100 Gigabit and 400 Gigabit Ethernet over Fibre which uses a VERY THIN and flexible long-run (up to 5km) single-mode glass fibre OR multi-mode short-run plastic fibre up to 500 metres!

XLR (aka Cannon Connector -- i.e. with TWO 'n's!) sends electrically GROUNDED 3-pin analog AUDIO signals to your off-board recording device OR is used for connecting higher-end microphones (i.e. Neumann U87ai) to your camera or to an external recording device. XLR does not have a video signal on it. Only audio, SMPTE timecode or MIDI-pulses (MIDI = Musical Instrument Digital Interface) for music device and lighting control purposes are sent over this type of connector.

Nowadays, you really should be looking at a camera that has a 10 Gigabit, 100 Gigabit, 400 Gigabit (or even One Terabit!) over Ethernet fibre optic interface which can send multiple channels of Audio Samples, Video Frames, SMPTE Timecode, MIDI pulses and other Metadata interleaved within each Ethernet Frame and upper-level IPv6 TCP or UDP packet.

P.S. Just for a fun fact, BNC cable is heavy as heck! I used to have to pull THOUSANDS of metres of it through all sorts of tight, smelly, bug-infested utility ways for all those sports cameras used in a typical pro-level Hockey game (NHL) or Football (CFL) Game and THEN I had to carry 60 lbs worth of Betacam SP/HDCAM camera, NICAD batteries and wireless audio/video packs on my shoulder for two to four hours at a time! Fibre Optic Cable is soooooooo much lighter and easier to pull than SDI/BNC cable! No wonder our producer/director had a portable hot tub put into the rest tent! Your entire body ACHES after all that sort of physical exertion!

Now You Know!

V

 

[HarryFilm]

Ha! Once again, this news comes out of nowhere and catches our Canon camera rumor expert completely off guard

I now predict that Canon will be coming out with a One Inch Thick (2.5 cm) combination Android Super-Smartphone and mini-DSLR camera with an APS-C sensor and 2.6K resolution screen on it, with the entire phone sourced from ASUS of Taiwan but having a sensor from Canon. The sensor will be a 30 Megapixel stacked sensor with 120 fps 4K video capability and will have TWO LARGE BRIGHT RED metal buttons normally used as the photo-taking/video-recording button BUT can be repurposed as user-selectable-app-specific ACTION Buttons that can be changed to activate any phone or camera function desired. An optional all-plastic $495 USD phone case will allow for EXTERNAL camera RF lenses to be attached that has data connectors built-in so that lens control, focus and iris can be controlled by the phone just like any Canon DSLR camera does! AND an addition $295 External Battery Case connector that attaches to the new phone case will let you use the R1/R5 batteries to power the phone and/or external lenses for DAYS at time!

Battery Life will be ASTOUNDING and teh phone itself will cost a mere $1795 USD !!!

There! You Heard It Here FIRST!

V

 

[Omn]

I think a lot of people are pairing the C400 with the C80 incorrectly. The C70 has the same sensor as the C300 Mark III. If anything, the C400 is really the C200 Mark II replacement - which makes sense because the C200 was really on an island of it's own. The C80 will have the same sensor as the eventual C300 Mark IV replacement which Canon will rebrand as the C600 or something like that next year or so.

C80 sensor is the same as C400.
To justify the pricepoint for the flagship cinema camera they need superior sensor, like the one in R1 and step up to 14 bit RAW.

Yes C600 branding is logical for C500 successor as C400 replaces C300. And it seems C200 as well.

 

[Omn]

I just wish all these cinema cameras were global shutters.

No need for global shutter with sufficiently fast readout and it reduces DR.

R1 has very fast readout sensor to finally get over rolling shutter issues.

 

[wafflelad]

That's because sensor is 17:9 DCI format (1.89) : )

As suggested, please check the specs first.

The sensor is 3:2 (6202 x 4300). The current max accessible recording area is 17:9. There's been no indication yet that they couldn't make the rest of the sensor accessible. No previous Canon cinema cameras have had a 3:2 sensor, so there's reason to believe that this one is taller for a reason and they could be working on a firmware update that would enable open gate filming to access the full sensor.

 

[GTCRMedia]

Why didn't they go with a CF Express Type B for the main card slot? This puts a huge hard stop for any features to be pushed in the C80 later on. Sure it has a full frame 6k BSI sensor, Triple base ISO and internal ND\'s and the new addition of the SDI port. But I wouldn\'t want to feel limited in any of it\'s modes. I will definitely be waiting to see what else comes from Canon. For now i will stick with my R5C.

 

[Besisika]

SDI (Serial Digital Interface) is/was a standard using old-style BNC (Bayonet Connectors) on heavy well-shielded cables to send COMPONENT RGB or YCbCr video signals out to professional recording decks usually being super-high data rate digital tape or big hard drive arrays! The signal was able to be kept as clean/little-noise as possible and SDI is mostly used in Sports Stadiums, Concert Venues or in Closed Circuit Television systems for commercial/industrial sites connecting high-end SDTV, HDTV or 4K/8K cameras to a central location for recording and long-term storage.

They have updated the standard to include fibre optic BUT SDI is now being overshadowed by 100 Gigabit and 400 Gigabit Ethernet over Fibre which uses a VERY THIN and flexible long-run (up to 5km) single-mode glass fibre OR multi-mode short-run plastic fibre up to 500 metres!

XLR (aka Cannon Connector -- i.e. with TWO 'n's!) sends electrically GROUNDED 3-pin analog AUDIO signals to your off-board recording device OR is used for connecting higher-end microphones (i.e. Neumann U87ai) to your camera or to an external recording device. XLR does not have a video signal on it. Only audio, SMPTE timecode or MIDI-pulses (MIDI = Musical Instrument Digital Interface) for music device and lighting control purposes are sent over this type of connector.

Nowadays, you really should be looking at a camera that has a 10 Gigabit, 100 Gigabit, 400 Gigabit (or even One Terabit!) over Ethernet fibre optic interface which can send multiple channels of Audio Samples, Video Frames, SMPTE Timecode, MIDI pulses and other Metadata interleaved within each Ethernet Frame and upper-level IPv6 TCP or UDP packet.

P.S. Just for a fun fact, BNC cable is heavy as heck! I used to have to pull THOUSANDS of metres of it through all sorts of tight, smelly, bug-infested utility ways for all those sports cameras used in a typical pro-level Hockey game (NHL) or Football (CFL) Game and THEN I had to carry 60 lbs worth of Betacam SP/HDCAM camera, NICAD batteries and wireless audio/video packs on my shoulder for two to four hours at a time! Fibre Optic Cable is soooooooo much lighter and easier to pull than SDI/BNC cable! No wonder our producer/director had a portable hot tub put into the rest tent! Your entire body ACHES after all that sort of physical exertion!

Now You Know!

V

Thanks, much appreciated.

 

[Besisika]

Why didn't they go with a CF Express Type B for the main card slot? This puts a huge hard stop for any features to be pushed in the C80 later on. Sure it has a full frame 6k BSI sensor, Triple base ISO and internal ND\'s and the new addition of the SDI port. But I wouldn\'t want to feel limited in any of it\'s modes. I will definitely be waiting to see what else comes from Canon. For now i will stick with my R5C.

I do prefer the CF Express too: robust and fast. Sounds stupid but I am glad they didn't. If they did, I would have asked why not 6K60, cripple hammer? Now it is fully justified: SD card. Just my thinking. I am not Canon. For the price, I am ok with what is offered. My only question is now (for myself) C80 or R1? Both have strong points for my needs. They never perfect, will they ever?

 

[Omn]

Technically, ALL CAMERAS have Anamorphic Support! You just need a 2.4:1 Anamorphic Lens and Black Magic Resolve, Adobe Premiere, Avid, Vegas, Corel VideoStudio, Apple Final Cut Pro, etc. and add a Lanczos-3 Resizing Filter on your timeline that has its NEW frame size set to that unsqueezed anamorphic frame on the horizontal axis using the most recent SMPTE 195-1993 Anamorphic Standard at 2.39x of recorded horizontal resolution which UNSQUEEZES a 16:9 Anamorphic video capture out to Super-WideScreen 4588 by 1080 pixels (HDTV), 9,178 by 2160 Pixels (4K UHDTV) or 18,356 by 4320 pixels (8K QUHDTV).

It doesn't work that way.

You need 4:3 surface recording ability for 2x anamorphic otherwise you loose full image height and you don't "unsqueeze" and expand digital image into a wider image imagining new pixels in post but "squeeze" it vertically to same width.

"Unsqueeze" as in stretching the image happens optically with anamorphic images and anamorphic lens projection. Not in digital domain.

 

[Omn]

The sensor is 3:2 (6202 x 4300). The current max accessible recording area is 17:9. There's been no indication yet that they couldn't make the rest of the sensor accessible. No previous Canon cinema cameras have had a 3:2 sensor, so there's reason to believe that this one is taller for a reason and they could be working on a firmware update that would enable open gate filming to access the full sensor.

Well "effective pixels" suggest something and lack of "anamorphic support/open gate is on the way" statement which would help sales also suggests something...

I'd say that S35 4:3 crop anamorphic seems more plausible. Not sure why it isn't there already.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Well "effective pixels" suggest something and lack of "anamorphic support/open gate is on the way" statement which would help sales also suggests something...

The specified effective pixel count is lower than the total pixel count on all the spec lists I've seen, but going from 27 MP to 19 MP is a much bigger delta than normal, and that does suggest there's something else going on with the C400 and C80.

 

[utisz1]

Since C80 has stacked sensor its DR will be definitely worse than of C70. The same goes with the R5 an R5 m2 comparision as current tests already proved it. And base noise is great as it is more cinematic than the any flat footage without any character!

 

[neuroanatomist]

Since C80 has stacked sensor its DR will be definitely worse than of C70. The same goes with the R5 an R5 m2 comparision as current tests already proved it.

Is a difference of <0.5 stop significant?

 

[Omn]

Since C80 has stacked sensor its DR will be definitely worse than of C70. The same goes with the R5 an R5 m2 comparision as current tests already proved it. And base noise is great as it is more cinematic than the any flat footage without any character!

If it is the same sensor as in R3, which it likely is, highlight DR is excellent and top class. For more highlight range you'll have to spend a lot more on Alexa. It is the same highlight performance as C70, if there is any difference it is negligible.

DGO has upper hand in DR in blacks (not to be confused with low light) and the difference between this sensor is not really something I'd stress over, especially considering what is gained (readout speed, 6K FF, two frame sizes, low light performance)
This is superior performance to R5.
(I've analysed them)

If you check DXO you will see R3 has the best low light performance, which is taken with C400 and C80 even further with tripple native ISO.

And if you check CVP C400 test you will see highlight performance is superior to Red flagship, camera used on blockbusters. So I wouldn't overthink this and dramatize.

 

[Omn]

Is a difference of <0.5 stop significant?

Where did you see this ?

 

[HarryFilm]

It doesn't work that way.

You need 4:3 surface recording ability for 2x anamorphic otherwise you loose full image height and you don't "unsqueeze" and expand digital image into a wider image imagining new pixels in post but "squeeze" it vertically to same width.

"Unsqueeze" as in stretching the image happens optically with anamorphic images and anamorphic lens projection. Not in digital domain.

You can use an Anamorphic Lens to record to ANY 16:9 sensor! The file is UNSQUEEZED DIGITALLY to the frame sizes I specified on your timeline. Just make sure you use a high-end image resize algorithm such as Lanczos-3! I am ONLY talking about Anamorphic RECORDING and not the OPTICAL unsqueeze of the projection. This methods lets you use ANY camera to record in Super-Wide-Screen 2.4:1 aspect ratio!

Just remember to EXPORT your timeline out to MP4 at the above specified frames sizes!

Now You Know!

V

 

[Omn]

You can use an Anamorphic Lens to record to ANY 16:9 sensor!

You can but in case of 2x you will loose much of the frame in height which a) severely limits framing and is not really the proper usage and b) is personal fun incompatible with any professional delivery standard.

For 16x9 imager 1.33 anamorphic works properly.

The file is UNSQUEEZED DIGITALLY to the frame sizes I specified

You specified wrong.

In digital, anamorphic image gets squeezed in height, not unsqueezed and upscaled in width generating pixels which were not recorded.

Horizontal resolution stays the same, vertical gets downscaled/oversampled

Example: DCI 4096x3112 goes to 4096x1716

Scroll down under "resolutions".

4K resolution - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The only cases I'm seeing where it might make sense to keep vertical and upscale horizontal would be if the anamorphic recording was lower resolution then delivery, like 2K/1080p for 4K/UHD, or for doing prints.

Now you know.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Where did you see this ?

I was referring to the statement, "The same goes with the R5 an R5 m2 comparision as current tests already proved it," and using the photographic dynamic range values for those two cameras provided by Bill Claff (photonstophotos.net). Of course, that difference may not be representative of the C80 and C70, and from what I've read DR in video is different anyway (not something I am concerned with).