Three new stacked sensor cameras coming from Canon [CR2]

[Uneternal]

"...and nothing pointing to any Q4 2023 announcements."

I don't know if Canon ordered you to stay quiet but IMO there's no way that there will be no new announcement before the Christmas sales. I'm pretty sure they're getting ready to announce the R5II soon (Oct/Nov timeframe).

 

[Rudolf_Appel]

Regarding D7 and stacked sensor:
I have heard and seen a lot of complaints about rolling shutter in this camera. Other manufacturers like Fuji have a stacked “smaller” sensor camera.
I believe that market demand will eventually lead to a D7 with stacked sensor. While many claim that stacked sensors would be too costly, they forget that mechanical shutters can be eliminated and that will be a major cost and internal space saver. I trust that now already but certainly in the near future stacked sensors are much cheaper than mechanical shutters. manufacturers just don’t like the market to know.

 

[koenkooi]

Off topic, but I'd be interested in what you dislike about R5 ergos. From my 20D, through 5D, 5DII, 5DsR and R6, I have grown into, and like, the R5 ergos. Not sure what I'd change.

For me it is contextual, I like the ergonomics of my R5 and R8 when using them separately, but side-by-side I get confused and frustrated with both.

The R8 lacks buttons (joystick!) and the R5 lacks the new AF interface, but they are similar enough that I sometimes forget which body I’m using.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

While many claim that stacked sensors would be too costly, they forget that mechanical shutters can be eliminated and that will be a major cost and internal space saver too. I trust eventually stacked sensors are much cheaper than mechanical shutters. manufacturers just don’t like the market to know.

That is certainly Nikon's strategy.
However, Canon has shown the ability to have decent electronic shutter speed without using a stacked sensor.
The R8 has it and costs the same as the R7.

 

[Unchecked]

Yea and cost savings like that more often than not don't usually get translated down to the users.

The R1 is a given. Now Nikon has their number 2 camera, the stacked sensor Z8, at $4k and Sony has their number 2 stacked sensor camera, the a9ii, at $4.5k. While I do think Canon's going to respond to the Z8 and the a9, it's probably going to be around $4k to $5k. That then leaves space them to keep the R5 or a reiteration of it at it's current $3.4k price point. Nikon's also probably going to have a normal camera at the $3k price point at some point to replace the Z7ii.

Maybe they'll reshuffle the cameras around. The R1 taking the R3's $6.5k price point, the R3ii becoming that $4k~$5k stacked sensor camera. Who knows. *shrugs*

 

[addola]

Canon have used stacked sensors in their PowerShot cameras, but I believe these were made by Sony (IIRC). I think many people wish the 3rd stacked sensor would be for an APS-C camera, but I think it could as well be 1-inch sensor for a PowerShot

 

[Walrus]

Off topic, but I'd be interested in what you dislike about R5 ergos. From my 20D, through 5D, 5DII, 5DsR and R6, I have grown into, and like, the R5 ergos. Not sure what I'd change.

Agree.
My roadmap of primary cameras (aside of backups and experiments) was 10D-20D-5D-5DII-6D and now finally R6; I always found great improvements going on, and now the R6 I feel it's basically perfect, with all that I can ask to control it super fast during a ceremony (three dials, so exposure triangle in full control without using buttons like typically the ISO button all the way until 6D, the joystick, and the MFn button configurable to toggle focus mode with a single press).

The only thing I would change on R6, or better, implement, it's not about ergo: I use the viewfinder with the bare minimum info in it, so just the bottom row info ("basic shooting info"), like in an optical viewfinder.
The only thing missing, that I would love to costantly see with a display icon, is the current WB; If I want to see it now I have to activate the "detailed shooting info", which will burden my display with useless info on both sides of the screen. I would love an even deeper customization of the display/VF, where I can choose down to the single icon displayed, instead of having all or none of them.

Oh, and in that context, I would like a better customization of display and VF toggle, in the sense that I would love the display to be always turned off as I only work via VF, so I don't see why the rear display should be turned on when I remove the camera from my eye. But if I set to just use the VF, then also the menu appears in the VF, and that's really uncofortable. So I would love an option to exclusively use the VF, but then automatic toggle to rear display when I press the menu button.

 

[Roland]

The 3rd one likely to be the high megapixel R5ii

 

[mpmark]

I would love the 3rd one to be a top shelf crop body with atleast 32mp! And don't screw it up like the r7! Keep the body the same as the r5 which is perfect! This would be every wildlife shooters dream in the canon rf lineup i daresay! Please!!!!!!!

Not my dream, honestly why do people have to always speak for others? I’m happy with the r5, crop sensors are a thing of the past for me

 

[Canon Rumors]

Canon have used stacked sensors in their PowerShot cameras, but I believe these were made by Sony (IIRC). I think many people wish the 3rd stacked sensor would be for an APS-C camera, but I think it could as well be 1-inch sensor for a PowerShot

Conventional PowerShot cameras are dead.

 

[bbasiaga]

I hope its true. An R5II at around 45mp with stacked sensor may be the perfect camera for my tastes at the moment. Or an R3II with something more like 36mp.

Exciting times.

But...R6II was rumored to be stacked too...and it didn't happen.....

-Brian

 

[chasingrealness]

Maybe an R7mk2? Perhaps they are thinking about a real 7d2 replacement? I know it's early but the rumor does not suggest a timeline does it?

There is a compelling case to own both a full-frame stacked sensor camera and a flagship APS-C body for a lot of shooters out there. I love my R7. Such a little beast of a camera.

 

[Canon Rumors]

Off topic, but I'd be interested in what you dislike about R5 ergos. From my 20D, through 5D, 5DII, 5DsR and R6, I have grown into, and like, the R5 ergos. Not sure what I'd change.

Well, a few things that I remember. I didn't like the grip at all, I never felt relaxed in the wrist holding it. I didn't like the button placements around the joystick. I didn't like how close the joystick was to the viewfinder. I found some of the buttons useless and not needed. The scroll wheel was too low..... so that's a few things.... None of this is wrong, it just didn't work for me.

A caveat that may matter.... I have large hands... No issue palming a size 7 basketball sort of thing.

 

[Marphoto]

Not sure where all of the ergonomic angst is coming from. Of all of the major cameras, Canon, Nikon, and Sony, Canon has the best ergonomics.

 

[Canon Rumors]

Not sure where all of the ergonomic angst is coming from. Of all of the major cameras, Canon, Nikon, and Sony, Canon has the best ergonomics.

Not sure where you see angst? People asked, people answered. Ergonomics are one of, if not the most important design element of a camera or really any tool. As mentioned previously, it's a personal thing.

... and Sony? eeek.

To me, the Leica SL2 duo have the best photography focused ergonomics for people with big hands. It's too bad that what's inside the cameras are frustrating in some shooting situations.

 

[roby17269]

While I'd love for a high-res stacked sensor in the R5 mkII or R1, I think the industry is consolidating and new sensors are big investments and as such they need to be amortized over a large number of cameras (depending on unit costs obviously).

So I'd be surprised if Canon were to introduce 3 new sensors in a short (relatively speaking) time span.

Sony and Nikon are mostly re-using sensors in multiple bodies. There are a few exceptions (e.g. A1), but most "new" sensors are actually tweaks of existing ones. Canon has already a low-count single-camera sensor (R3) and another relatively low count sensor in 2 similar cameras (R5/R5C)

 

[neuroanatomist]

Canon has already a low-count single-camera sensor (R3) and another relatively low count sensor in 2 similar cameras (R5/R5C)

The 45 MP R5/R5C are 'relatively low-count'? Ok...

 

[Canon Rumors]

Have you tried the R3.
I happen to believe it is ergomically perfect.

I've had it in my hands, but I have never done any work with one.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Not sure where you see angst? People asked, people answered. Ergonomics are one of, if not the most important design element of a camera or really any tool. As mentioned previously, it's a personal thing.

Agreed, very personal. IMO, there are two parts to it – handholding comfort and control placement. So an aspect of the personal impact is how someone uses a camera.

I hope that at least some people find Sony's small, blocky cameras comfortable to hold. If it's mostly in a camera bag or hanging from a neck/shoulder strap and held up only for occasional shooting, or it it's almost always on a tripod, then handholding comfort is less of a concern. Personally, I can hold the R3 in my hand (with the E1 hand strap attached) for an entire day and not feel fatigue in my hand or fingers, even with a heavy lens like the RF 28-70/2. If I tried that with the R8 even with a light lens, my hand would be cramping within the first hour. The RRS L-bracket helps (the design is similar to Canon's grip extension attachment), but not enough. However, when I took the R8 to Italy, it was usually in my Think Tank messenger bag and I pulled it out to shoot then put it back in the bag, so it wasn't in my hands long enough to matter. On the couple of occasions where I carried it around, I have the RF 28/2.8 pancake mounted and the camera mostly hung from the Peak Design wrist strap.

I suspect most people can develop muscle memory that enables easy use of even controls that are not ideally placed. The gearshift and clutch pedal were in the usual place on the VW T-Roc I rented in Italy a few weeks ago, and I had no problem driving it even though the last time I drove a manual transmission was over 20 years ago. It's the change that is a problem. You mentioned missing Canon DSLRs for that, true! When I had a 5DII and a 7D, switching between them was almost seamless. Switching between the 1D X and the EOS M...wasn't. There has been more flux so far in the R line, but I expect things will stabilize. As I've said before, I really hope the Smart Controller makes its way down the lines. A joystick was fine with a comparatively few AF points, but with the whole field being selectable for AF the Smart Controller on the R3 and 1D X III is the best point selection method I've come across.

One other thing that Canon has been hit and miss on is control placement on battery grips. Usually it's different enough between landscape portrait controls to be annoying. Integrated grip bodies are much better there – on the R3, the controls are in nearly identical positions in both orientations. I also find integrated grip much more comfortable than the add-on versions. That's because the add-on grips always protrude in back where your palm rests as well as in front for the necessary finger grip. The back protrusion is to accommodate the two batteries. The integrated grip bodies have a smooth, rounded corner on the back that I find much more comfortable.

 

[Del Paso]

Well, I think ergonomics are a very personal thing. I could never get used to the R5 ergonomics and bailed on the camera after about 18 months. Nothing against its capabilities, I just didn't like using it.

I don't believe Canon has nailed the ergonomics on the EOS R series yet, and that we'll see further evolution. I do miss that about their DSLRs.

I miss those ergonomics too, and especially the size of the 5 D series. The EOS R 3 comes closest !
Besides, Canon should opt for a standardized ergonomics concept, like in the past.
R, R6, R5, R7, all of them have different controls.