Updated ship dates for the new Canon lenses

[koenkooi]

Funny how statistics get redefined to meet the need of an argument. If Sony, Sigma, and Tamron all outsold Canon, that would suggest that Sony mount was about 3 times as popular as Canon, since both Fuji and L are tiny and the third parties only make a few Nikon lenses. I didn't see the stat, but sounds like one store that was pushing Sony. Canon is doing a lot of the right things to capture the volume market and tomorrow's elite market will be a subset of today's volume market. Smart play, but then Canon always plays the long game. We will see the missing lenses that folks here are whining about one by one as the EF versions are discontinued. In a shrunken market, it makes no economic sense to duplicate production lines for an overlap period.

It was surprising, to me, that for that timeframe (I think it was a month) the first Canon lens was so far down the list.

 

[Dragon]

You need to look more carefully, and then try to comprehend what you read. First off, you have the rank order slightly incorrect for the most recent data, Canon is 5th. But the actual numbers are:

1. Sigma – 18.9%
2. Tamron – 17.8%
3. Sony – 14.5%
4. Nikon – 14.2%
5. Canon – 12.9%

Even more importantly, those values are for one month, in this case October, 2023. So maybe you saw a report about September, when Canon was #4. If you look at August, Sony was #1; Nikon was #1 in March and Canon was #1 in February. The bottom line is that looking at lens sales, there's no one vendor that's clearly dominating the market. Also as you note the data are from only Japan, which accounts ~9% of the lenses shipped globally.

Now, look at worldwidecamera sales for 2022 (full year):

1. Canon – 46.5%
2. Sony – 26.1%
3. Nikon – 11.7%
4. Fujifilm – 5.8%

Canon sold more cameras than the next three manufacturers combined. That's domination of a market.

If those numbers are unit count, then it sounds like Sigma and Tamron are flushing their DSLR lenses at a large discount and that would make sense.

 

[AlanF]

Funny how statistics get redefined to meet the need of an argument. If Sony, Sigma, and Tamron all outsold Canon, that would suggest that Sony mount was about 3 times as popular as Canon, since both Fuji and L are tiny and the third parties only make a few Nikon lenses. I didn't see the stat, but sounds like one store that was pushing Sony. Canon is doing a lot of the right things to capture the volume market and tomorrow's elite market will be a subset of today's volume market. Smart play, but then Canon always plays the long game. We will see the missing lenses that folks here are whining about one by one as the EF versions are discontinued. In a shrunken market, it makes no economic sense to duplicate production lines for an overlap period.

It could be that on average owners of the Sony mount buy four or five or greater times more lenses than owners of Canon. I am not saying that is so, but another possible interpretation.

 

[Dragon]

It could be that on average owners of the Sony mount buy four or five or greater times more lenses than owners of Canon. I am not saying that is so, but another possible interpretation.

There is also the question of whether the stat includes lenses sold with cameras or only lenses sold individually. I haven't seen the source data, so hard to tell, but often detail is difficult to decipher in such reports. Canon is well represented in Amazon sales https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers...enses/zgbs/photo/499248/ref=zg_bs_nav_photo_1 and those are clearly individual lens sales as opposed to kit lens sales.

 

[AlanF]

There is also the question of whether the stat includes lenses sold with cameras or only lenses sold individually. I haven't seen the source data, so hard to tell, but often detail is difficult to decipher in such reports. Canon is well represented in Amazon sales https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers...enses/zgbs/photo/499248/ref=zg_bs_nav_photo_1 and those are clearly individual lens sales as opposed to kit lens sales.

In the UK, it's the Canon and Sony cheapos battling it out. Sigma doesn't really figure. It's just the nerds on sites like ours paying the large amounts.

Amazon.co.uk Best Sellers: The most popular items in Camera Lenses

 

[neuroanatomist]

It was surprising, to me, that for that timeframe (I think it was a month) the first Canon lens was so far down the list.

I measured the area under the curves from the BCN data, which approximates a year of Japanese lens sales instead of just one month:



That means the Sigma at the top of the rank order sold just over 20% more lenses than Canon / Nikon at the bottom. But the spread is really narrow, not really significant, IMO, especially since those data are from just one country.

 

[Surab]

I measured the area under the curves from the BCN data, which approximates a year of Japanese lens sales instead of just one month:

View attachment 213274

That means the Sigma at the top of the rank order sold just over 20% more lenses than Canon / Nikon at the bottom. But the spread is really narrow, not really significant, IMO, especially since those data are from just one country.

Still interesting to see what supporting the 4 mounts can amount to.

Now, look at worldwidecamera sales for 2022 (full year):

1. Canon – 46.5%
2. Sony – 26.1%
3. Nikon – 11.7%
4. Fujifilm – 5.8%

That leads me to the question how much of Canon share are RF (purely Canon support), EF (also Sigma and Tamron) support, or non-ILC (no lens sales).

It would also be interesting to see how much of the Sigma and Tamron share comes from E, X, m43, L vs F or EF.

 

[EricN]

In the UK, it's the Canon and Sony cheapos battling it out. Sigma doesn't really figure. It's just the nerds on sites like ours paying the large amounts.

Amazon.co.uk Best Sellers: The most popular items in Camera Lenses

As we often say, most people only buy the kit lens. I looked quickly and the first Canon L lens was the 24-105 f/4 all the way down at #65 and I did notice the prices seem too high

 

[neuroanatomist]

Still interesting to see what supporting the 4 mounts can amount to.

It doesn’t tell the whole story. These data are from BCN, and AFAIK they are reporting only standalone lens sales, not counting lenses sold as kits with a body (and based on their information, most bodies are sold with two lenses in the kit).

That means that Sony and Canon are certainly selling more total lenses than the third-party manufactures.

That leads me to the question how much of Canon share are RF (purely Canon support), EF (also Sigma and Tamron) support, or non-ILC (no lens sales).

In 2021, Canon’s ILC sales comprised ~22% EOS R, ~33% EOS M, and ~44% DSLR. Obviously, those numbers are shifting toward EOS R since DSLR sales continue to drop and the M line has been discontinued. Also, very relevant is thst in the past two years the selection of inexpensive R bodies and lenses has grown significantly.

It would also be interesting to see how much of the Sigma and Tamron share comes from E, X, m43, L vs F or EF.

Yes, it would. It seems likely that as Canon is shifting their base to the EOS R system, third-party lens sales to Canon buyers would decrease. Given Canon’s dominance of the camera market, I expect that would affect the bottom line of those third-party manufacturers. That is speculation, I have not checked those manufacturers’ financials to see if that’s the case.

 

[Surab]

?

It doesn’t tell the whole story. These data are from BCN, and AFAIK they are reporting only standalone lens sales, not counting lenses sold as kits with a body (and based on their information, most bodies are sold with two lenses in the kit).

Indeed the R6II Black Friday deal I jumped on had the standard 24-105 to F4 kit lens but also an extra 50mm F1.8. So those two lenses might not get counted then.

 

[neuroanatomist]

?

Indeed the R6II Black Friday deal I jumped on had the standard 24-105 to F4 kit lens but also an extra 50mm F1.8. So those two lenses might not get counted then.

Well, unless you’re in Japan none of them would be counted since BCN reports data only for Japan (and really, only for about half the retailers in Japan).

Also, presumably they count OEM kits as such, so in your example if sold in Japan then the 24-105 that was packaged in the box with the camera (where the box says R6II with 24-105/4L) would not be counted as a lens sale by BCN. The 50/1.8 a retailer provided ‘free’ with the purchase would be counted as a lens sale. Basically, a lens in its own box counts but lenses inside the manufacturer’s box with a body don’t count.

 

[Surab]

Well, unless you’re in Japan none of them would be counted since BCN reports data only for Japan (and really, only for about half the retailers in Japan).

Also, presumably they count OEM kits as such, so in your example if sold in Japan then the 24-105 that was packaged in the box with the camera (where the box says R6II with 24-105/4L) would not be counted as a lens sale by BCN. The 50/1.8 a retailer provided ‘free’ with the purchase would be counted as a lens sale. Basically, a lens in its own box counts but lenses inside the manufacturer’s box with a body don’t count.

I see. Then in fact both would have counted as I picked up the order in a local branch which didn't have the kit but instead gave me everything separately. Not that it matters to me.

 

[roby17269]

As mentioned in another thread, the Adorama sales rep told me that there were 130+ people in front of me for the 200-800. That was 3 days after the announcement.
I guess next week I will have a sense of how many of those will have pre-ordered from multiple places...
But I do not expect to receive one in time for the Xmas trip. I will have to enjoy the 10-20 f/4L which I haven't put through its paces yet

 

[AlanF]

As mentioned in another thread, the Adorama sales rep told me that there were 130+ people in front of me for the 200-800. That was 3 days after the announcement.
I guess next week I will have a sense of how many of those will have pre-ordered from multiple places...
But I do not expect to receive one in time for the Xmas trip. I will have to enjoy the 10-20 f/4L which I haven't put through its paces yet

According to our poll, there's only 1 preorder from CR members so far!

Have you preordered an RF 200-800mm?

How many preordered I wonder?

www.canonrumors.com

 

[EricN]

As mentioned in another thread, the Adorama sales rep told me that there were 130+ people in front of me for the 200-800. That was 3 days after the announcement.
I guess next week I will have a sense of how many of those will have pre-ordered from multiple places...
But I do not expect to receive one in time for the Xmas trip. I will have to enjoy the 10-20 f/4L which I haven't put through its paces yet

From what others have written the 10-20 is satisfying, how do you like it?

 

[roby17269]

From what others have written the 10-20 is satisfying, how do you like it?

I've just fired a couple of shots to confirm it was working fine with zooming, AF and MF. It is.
The only thing I can say is that 10mm needs to be seen to be believed
But I haven't tried it properly yet. It will be in the backpack for the upcoming trip though
It is smaller and lighter than I was expecting and that's a plus. Construction looks high quality as most L lenses

 

[roby17269]

According to our poll, there's only 1 preorder from CR members so far!

Have you preordered an RF 200-800mm?

How many preordered I wonder?

www.canonrumors.com

I missed that and I cast my vote now, so now there're 2 of us

I would expect that there are more readers here that have pre-ordered it. The Adorama rep was mildly impressed when he looked at the orders before mine.

Perhaps the thread was not visible enough? I know for one that I usually participate in the threads associated to the news on the front page, but rarely look at threads in the fora

 

[neuroanatomist]

The only thing I can say is that 10mm needs to be seen to be believed
It is smaller and lighter than I was expecting and that's a plus. Construction looks high quality as most L lenses

I've seen 11mm, so 10mm is not that different. But I'm more seriously considering the 10-20 now because of the smaller size and especially the lower weight. I was shooting with the 11-24/4 yesterday, and realizing that the 10-20/4 is about the same size/weight as the 14-35/4 has me weighing the benefits of being able to use a filter with the benefits of bringing the 10-20 when I would not bring the 11-24.

 

[roby17269]

I've seen 11mm, so 10mm is not that different.

For me, I had 17mm for Canon and 16mm (equivalent) for Hasselblad, so 10mm is a massive change. In the past I had the EF 8-15mm but that's a different beast and I much prefer rectilinear wides to fisheye. The 8-15 was properly tiny though

But I'm more seriously considering the 10-20 now because of the smaller size and especially the lower weight. I was shooting with the 11-24/4 yesterday, and realizing that the 10-20/4 is about the same size/weight as the 14-35/4 has me weighing the benefits of being able to use a filter with the benefits of bringing the 10-20 when I would not bring the 11-24.

Yes the filter aspect is a bit of a bummer with such wides, since you get a LOT in the scene

 

[EricN]

I missed that and I cast my vote now, so now there're 2 of us

I would expect that there are more readers here that have pre-ordered it. The Adorama rep was mildly impressed when he looked at the orders before mine.

Perhaps the thread was not visible enough? I know for one that I usually participate in the threads associated to the news on the front page, but rarely look at threads in the fora

In the menu thingy (I only know how to see it,l inside a topic), you can select "new posts"