Are we finally going to get f/2.8 constant aperture zoom lenses for APS-C/RF-S?

[David - Sydney]

The addition of longer Sigma RF-S lenses is more a wish than a prediction. Certainly, a Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 DG DN S could serve as the long part of the RF-S trinity, but compared with the 10-18 f/2.8 DC DN C and 18-50 f/2.8 DC DN C, it's large and heavy. Hence, the desire for a small and light 50-135 f/2.8 DC DN C lens.

If short 2/3 of the FF Sigma trinity is the 16-28 f/2.8 DG DN C and 28-70 DG DN C, then the 70-200 f/2.8 DG DN S is still comparatively large and bulky and might better be replaced with a smaller and lighter 70-200 f/4 DG DN C. (I'm 74 years old and trying to lighten my load.)

If this sounds weird and obsessive, consider that Canon does offer two complete FF L trinities, one where all the members are F/2.8 and another where all the members are f/4. (I own the EF trinity in F/4 and can adapt it for use with my R6-2.) So does Olympus/OMD. Canon doesn't offer a trinity for RF-S but apparently may be introducing one.

Did that answer the question you asked or did I go off on a tangent???

I don't have an investment in RF-S body/lenses so a theoretical question from me...

I can see that a RF-S equivalent to 70-200/2.8 would be useful if light/cheap/small. If that isn't possible then the existing RF lenses would work well even if heavier, more expensive etc.
My own mix of EF/RF lenses covers 8-500mm with three f2.8 and one f1.4. It suits my shooting rather than a specific "trinity" of sorts.

 

[Anon]

Getting peoples’ hopes up is cruel.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

 

[FilipDP]

There is now the Sigma 18-50/2.8 DC DN for RF-S, so a Canon equivalent would have to offer something more and I am not sure simply including IS is enough. If they can make a 16-70 f/2.8, then that would be more compelling.

Might explain why there is no talk of the Tamron 17-70 f/2.8 for Canon.

 

[Jose Rubio Rodrigu]

Esas cámaras OM no solo son tanques, sino que nadie fabrica una cámara APS-C que se acerca a la OM-1, en mi opinión. (He tenido cámaras FF, APS-C y M4/3rds desde 2014). Sus lentes también son de primera categoría. A pesar de ser propietario de una cámara digital Canon desde 2004, con cada lanzamiento de Canon desde que compré mi primera cámara Olympus m4/3 en 2014, deseaba que fuera tan buena como cualquier cámara Olympus que tuviera en ese momento. Como fotógrafo de aves, todavía estoy esperando que Canon (o cualquier otra) tenga un limitador de enfoque en la cámara como mis cámaras Olympus (ahora OM System) han tenido durante 8 años aproximadamente. Esa característica por sí sola, la convierte en mi cámara para aves de elección, ya que puede eliminar óptimamente la búsqueda de enfoque. Si no encuentra nada malo con APS-C, entonces no hay razón para no probar M4/3.

Canon R7 tiene esa limitación, y yo he probado tu cámara y prefiero la canon R7, a poca luz foto mejor enfoque, mas nitida y menos ruido.

 

[Halfmoon]

Yes, that's a big portion of consumerism now.

Though the Suzuki would probably be the tortoise in a 2000km race, between Ferrari breakdowns and fill-ups.

This Suzuki

should be a snail.... lol.... but I think she should be good to shoot...*with a camera, as in taking picture.... *

I think another analogy is the more you know.. the smaller you become, and usually, those who make the most noise are those with least knowledge.... maybe not really smaller but at least you know what you know and do not while the other group knows little but thought they know everything........

 

[Uneternal]

It seems to be a current trend that Canon, rather than improving something, they take a step back.
I suppose it's meant to save production cost, so they make more revenue.
But rather than a lame 17-45mm f/2.8 with even less zoom range than the old 17-55mm, I'd prefer a 17-70mm f/2.8 (27-112mm equivalent). If Tamron and Sigma can do it, why doesn't Canon?
Many people switch to other brands, because Canon has these holes in their APS-C portfolio. I personally use an adapted Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4. Great all-around lens, I just wish Canon had an alternative with the same zoom range, sharpness and fast aperture.

 

[blackcoffee17]

I don\'t even need constant aperture. Just make something like a 15-70 F2.8-F5.6 with great optical quality, AF and weather sealing.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Many people switch to other brands, because Canon has these holes in their APS-C portfolio.

How is it that, despite the frequent claims on this and other forums that many people are switching to other brands, Canon doesn't seem to lose any market share?

 

[Canon Rumors]

How is it that, despite the frequent claims on this and other forums that many people are switching to other brands, Canon doesn't seem to lose any market share?

Those brand switching articles and YouTube videos that seem to get engagement.... It makes people believe in outliers or complete nonsense. None of them changed brands, they just rented a kit. They probably don't even own a kit.

Your iPhone or Galaxy has the same IQ as a 4.6K ARRI by the way (presented at 1024px).

 

[Canon Rumors]

This Suzuki

should be a snail.... lol.... but I think she should be good to shoot...*with a camera, as in taking picture.... *

I think another analogy is the more you know.. the smaller you become, and usually, those who make the most noise are those with least knowledge.... maybe not really smaller but at least you know what you know and do not while the other group knows little but thought they know everything........

One of my favourite bird photographers rocks a 90D and 70-300!

 

[AJ]

That was my initial reaction, as well. But it’s certainly true that the entry-level market is shrinking, so I can see the logic in moving APS-C upmarket.

But the RP and R8 are cheaper than the R7 already, and there are decent non-L FF lenses. Canon could just come out with a 24-70/4 non-L and those wanting ‘prosumer APS-C’ would be better served anyway.

Somebody getting a new system on a budget is better served by FF cameras like the RP and R8, as you point out.

IMO, an f/2.8 APSC zoom would be aimed at people who have a RF 100-500 with an R7 body for "reach", and are looking for an upmarket standard zoom for this crop body that they already own.

At this stage of the game, going APSC and upmarket doesn't make too much sense. Unless the lens is tiny and will result in a big weight and size reduction. Might be nice for a travel setup. Although, a new incarnation of the 15-85 would serve this purpose better. I'll stop now because I think I'm rambling on.

 

[Uneternal]

How is it that, despite the frequent claims on this and other forums that many people are switching to other brands, Canon doesn't seem to lose any market share?

Oh really? That's very interesting, because although they "don't seem to lose any market share", according to Nikkei their worldwide market share fell from 46.5% in 2022 to 41.2% last year. While Sony's market shares rose from 26.1% to 32.1%, Nikon's from 11.7% to 13.2% and Fujifilms from 5.8% to 8%. And I'm honest with you, I'm a total Canon fanboy - but I'm not blind. People are leaving because of the whole third party lens situation.

Global digital camera market share 2022: Canon well ahead of Sony | sonyalpharumors

Nikkei analyzed the 2022 global market share in the electronics industry. In the digital camera market Canon is well ahead of Sony which lost about 0,9% market share compared to the previous year. When it comes to image sensors Sony is on top with a big leap over Samsung. Sony still leads in the...

www.sonyalpharumors.com

This was the global mirrorless camera market share in 2023: Canon 41,2% Sony 32.1% Nikon 13.2%…can Canon CEO he hopes to stop Sony chase! | sonyalpharumors

According to data from the research company Techno System Research, Canon, which ranks first in global supply of mirrorless cameras, accounts for 41% in 2023: Canon 41,2% Sony 32.1% Nikon 13.2% FujiFilm 8% Other brands 5.5% Nikkei reports that Canon Vice President Tsuyoshi Tokura called Sony...

www.sonyalpharumors.com

 

[P-visie]

Oh really? That's very interesting, because although they "don't seem to lose any market share", according to Nikkei their worldwide market share fell from 46.5% in 2022 to 41.2% last year. While Sony's market shares rose from 26.1% to 32.1%, Nikon's from 11.7% to 13.2% and Fujifilms from 5.8% to 8%. And I'm honest with you, I'm a total Canon fanboy - but I'm not blind. People are leaving because of the whole third party lens situation.

Global digital camera market share 2022: Canon well ahead of Sony | sonyalpharumors

Nikkei analyzed the 2022 global market share in the electronics industry. In the digital camera market Canon is well ahead of Sony which lost about 0,9% market share compared to the previous year. When it comes to image sensors Sony is on top with a big leap over Samsung. Sony still leads in the...

www.sonyalpharumors.com

This was the global mirrorless camera market share in 2023: Canon 41,2% Sony 32.1% Nikon 13.2%…can Canon CEO he hopes to stop Sony chase! | sonyalpharumors

According to data from the research company Techno System Research, Canon, which ranks first in global supply of mirrorless cameras, accounts for 41% in 2023: Canon 41,2% Sony 32.1% Nikon 13.2% FujiFilm 8% Other brands 5.5% Nikkei reports that Canon Vice President Tsuyoshi Tokura called Sony...

www.sonyalpharumors.com

You are comparing 2022 digital marketshare, which includes DSLR’s, with 2023 mirrorless marketshare, which does not include DSLR’s. Canon still sells DSLR’s, add those to the 2023 mirrorless marketshare to compare the 2022 and 2023 numbers. As @neuroanatomist states, Canon’s marketshare is stable at +/- 46-49%.

 

[SvO2]

You are comparing 2022 digital marketshare, which includes DSLR’s, with 2023 mirrorless marketshare, which does not include DSLR’s. Canon still sells DSLR’s, add those to the 2023 mirrorless marketshare to compare the 2022 and 2023 numbers. As @neuroanatomist states, Canon’s marketshare is stable at +/- 46-49%.

Do you have the actual dslr numbers?

 

[P-visie]

Do you have the actual dslr numbers?

CIPA reported worldwide shipments of 1,166,100 DSLR’s in 2023. IIRC Canon has a 70-80% marketshare for DSLR.

CIPA 2023 numbers: https://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-2023_e.pdf

 

[Uneternal]

You are comparing 2022 digital marketshare, which includes DSLR’s, with 2023 mirrorless marketshare, which does not include DSLR’s. Canon still sells DSLR’s, add those to the 2023 mirrorless marketshare to compare the 2022 and 2023 numbers. As @neuroanatomist states, Canon’s marketshare is stable at +/- 46-49%.

Okay that was a research error, but my argument still holds if you compare 2022 to 2020 numbers.
Unfortunately, Nikkei doesn't have any numbers for total market share of 2023.

2020:


2022:

 

[neuroanatomist]

Oh really? That's very interesting, because although they "don't seem to lose any market share", according to Nikkei their worldwide market share fell from 46.5% in 2022 to 41.2% last year. While Sony's market shares rose from 26.1% to 32.1%, Nikon's from 11.7% to 13.2% and Fujifilms from 5.8% to 8%. And I'm honest with you, I'm a total Canon fanboy - but I'm not blind. People are leaving because of the whole third party lens situation.

Think, then post. When you do it the other way around, you just look foolish.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Okay that was a research error, but my argument still holds if you compare 2022 to 2020 numbers.
Unfortunately, Nikkei doesn't have any numbers for total market share of 2023.

Oh, so now you're just going to cherry pick data instead of grossly misinterpreting it. What if I cherry picked global camera market share for 2021 and 2022, what do you think that would look like? Hint: the opposite of what you concluded.

As @P-visie stated, Canon has had just under 50% market share for the past 10 years. My original statement stands. If you want to look at a one year trend, or sales in one country, or cameras bought on Tuesday by your friend Bob, and draw conclusions based on that, you go right ahead. Keep on posting those conclusions and making yourself look more and more foolish.

The actual data support my original conclusion that there is no evidence of people switching away from Canon. If you want to see what the data for people switching systems actually look like, check the market share numbers for Nikon and Sony over the past 5-6 years (if you can manage to interpret those correctly, I have my doubts about that).

 

[P-visie]

Okay that was a research error, but my argument still holds if you compare 2022 to 2020 numbers.
Unfortunately, Nikkei doesn't have any numbers for total market share of 2023.

2020:
View attachment 219475

2022:
View attachment 219477

According to Statistica Canon’s marketshare of digital cameras as of december 2023 was 46.5%.
See: https://www.statista.com/statistics...rs-digital-cameras-market-share-sales-volume/

I do not know what you are trying to prove, but claims that Canon’s marketshare is declining because of: no third party lenses, “dark” (zoom) lenses, lack of “prosumer” aps-c camera’s, only 24mp sensors, no high mp gripped camera’s, no global shutter, no affordable f 1.4 primes and a whole load of other arguments that Canon doomsayers have used, are incorrect.

If you check @neuroanatomist posts about similar claims that “Canon is loosing marketshare”, you’ll find that Canon’s marketshare has been stable at around 46-49% for a long period.

EDIT: This post crossed @neuroanatomist post above.

 

[pulseimages]

Canon is really dragging their feet in opening up the R mount to third party lens manufacturers. What about full frame lenses?