Canon announces development of the EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera

[Richard CN]

The A/D stage can definitely be a bottleneck in some cases. For example, if it takes 50ms to perform a single full-sensor readout, you're not going to do more than 20fps no matter how fast everything downstream is. Remember, with current sensor tech you can't start a new exposure "from the top" before the sensor is completely flushed. And if that 50ms is reduced to 12ms by switching to 12-bit ADC mode, that's going to enable all sorts of stuff even if the downstream pipeline bottlenecks below 4x speedup.

I'm going to drop in this at the end. Canon uses slope comparator ADC's on their sensors, so yes, it's double the time for each increased bit.

sensor speed was most certainly one of the critical bottle necks - consider Canon couldn't even do full width 4K until this generation of sensor started with the 32.5MP APS-C sensor and their rolling shutter was atrocious before.

the 32.5MP sensor jumped the performance of the APS-C sensors a ton using the same DIGIC version.

This is kind of why I'm stoked right now - not really because of the R5 because it what is the percursor for (much like that petapixel article). I wrote my thoughts on my website about all this is the Rs and R1,etc.. but really to summarize.. we live in a Canon world were we just could have a 90MP R5s running at 10fps this year. It would have been impossible to even rationally contemplate that a year ago.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

I haven't touched that button in 8 years.

I only started using it a couple of years ago. But overall, out of the 5 buttons in that row I only use 'rate' and 'delete'.

 

[davo]

Indeed not seen on the video. Maybe wireless control?

I am guessing that will be the case :-( If so I think its the only canon without one. The R does and the 1D does, etc...why remove it for your flagship mirrorless :-( Wireless works but needs batteries and is easily lost. I assume a phone app will be an option as well but again...it makes things more complicated and trouble-prone for no reason.

 

[HarryFilm]

Right, but like I said, it was a massive failure. I think maybe the starting MSRP of 15 thousand goddamn dollars might have had something a lot to do with it, but still, it flopped.

--- What do you mean it flopped? I've got FOUR of the 1Dc's myself! I think we paid about $20,000 CANADIAN per camera but that included VERY NICE Canon CNE prime cinema EOS lenses for each camera. We bought Cinema Zooms later!

Actually, quite a few Hollywood people bought it.

I am making an estimate that 2000 of them were sold in the LA/Vancouver/Toronto/New York commercial video and Hollywood production corridors. That Canon CLOG is very nice to use and the 4K imagery when you have good lighting is quite exquisite. I do must admit low light was quite noisy BUT since I've mostly lit for industrial warehouse situations, it was never an issue! And being very rugged, our 1Dc's have been to SPACE !!! (i.e. higher than 300,000 feet or 91.4 km when packaged in a proper High-and-Low-Temp-resistant/EMI/RFI/Rad-Hardened box -- we used pressurized Helium to protect the cameras!)

---

This Canon R5 will likely ALSO be used for C-Cam and Crash Cam Hollywood and Commercial cinematography at 8K 24 fps or 120 fps 4K. When Canon comes out with a DCI 8K 60 fps or 120 fps version of the C700/C500 mk3 then people will start to REALLY take those cameras seriously UNLESS a certain very famous media company beats them to the punch with SOMETHING NEW and INSANELY GREAT !!!!!


---

 

[Richard CN]

So there is no physical remote port on the R5? I am not seeing the symbol for one on the port covers. I use cabled remotes a ton. Love them, hard to lose.

it could be that cover on the bottom right of the camera is the remote connection much like the 5D IV.

 

[Sharlin]

So there is no physical remote port on the R5? I am not seeing the symbol for one on the port covers. I use cabled remotes a ton. Love them, hard to lose.

Indeed not seen on the video. Maybe wireless control?

Uh, that's the round rubber cover on the bottom right of the front of the body, the same place as in the 5D4.

 

[ChockstoneMike]

That "thunk" was Sony falling over...



Waiting on 5DSR replacement.

I wonder if they are still considering an R5s (aka Mirrorless 5DSR II)? Exciting to see Canon finally awake at the wheel, but for 5DSR landscape shooters not interested in video or FPS this would be a downgrade, at least in resolution.

Even features like IBIS aren't particularly useful when you're carrying a tripod everywhere and multi-shot doesn't work on the natural world, which moves constantly.

The only thing interesting for landscape, is a possible minor weight reduction, and hopefully some DR/shadow noise improvement. At least if they improved the battery, that wouldn't be worse.

On the plus side, I like the look of the thing. Looks more like a 5D series. The joystick and wheel are back and that touch bar is gone, all of which is great. Also the flippy screen would be helpful for low/or high shooting positions. I'm hopeful this could all lead towards an amazing R5s (mega high res) version with stripped back video and less FPS to keep the cost down. Fingers crossed!

 

[BillB]

it could be that cover on the bottom right of the camera is the remote connection much like the 5D IV.

Bingo!

 

[Sharlin]

I wonder if they are still considering an R5s (aka Mirrorless 5DSR II)? Exciting to see Canon finally awake at the wheel, but for 5DSR landscape shooters not interested in video or FPS this would be a downgrade, at least in resolution.

They've been doing way too much work on ultra-high-res sensors to just give up now. 83MP has been a reasonable guess given the 32MP crop sensor on the 90D/M6II, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're aiming even higher now that they've solved the readout speed issue. Given, say, a 120MP/8fps body and RF quality glass, who exactly needs medium format?

 

[joestopper]

I wonder if they are still considering an R5s (aka Mirrorless 5DSR II)? Exciting to see Canon finally awake at the wheel, but for 5DSR landscape shooters not interested in video or FPS this would be a downgrade, at least in resolution.

Even features like IBIS aren't particularly useful when you're carrying a tripod everywhere and multi-shot doesn't work on the natural world, which moves constantly.

The only thing interesting for landscape, is a possible minor weight reduction, and hopefully some DR/shadow noise improvement. At least if they improved the battery, that wouldn't be worse.

On the plus side, I like the look of the thing. Looks more like a 5D series. The joystick and wheel are back and that touch bar is gone, all of which is great. Also the flippy screen would be helpful for low/or high shooting positions. I'm hopeful this could all lead towards an amazing R5s (mega high res) version with stripped back video and less FPS to keep the cost down. Fingers crossed!

I guess a quarter or two after R5 market intro the R5S will be announced.

 

[Max TT]

So EOS R6 maybe Vegas in April or Photokina in May?

And what are the chances both R5 and R6 come in July. Would have to be a clear distinction in offering and price.

I can see a $2000 R6 and a $3500 R5.

 

[davo]

it could be that cover on the bottom right of the camera is the remote connection much like the 5D IV.

Ahhhhhhh....did some googling on the IV and I bet you are right..... I feel better.

 

[PureClassA]

And just like that. CP+ is gone and no R5 preview.

 

[slclick]

And just like that. CP+ is gone and no R5 preview.

For good reasons. Perhaps WPPI is the next opportunity?

 

[PureClassA]

Same weekend. I assume that will still happen

 

[amorse]

Matt is taking a conservative approach and I think his information is wrong, however he just misspoke on the mirror up thing. Mistakes happen.

Yea, I don't think he's intentionally being controversial, but it's hard to take this serious when he starts with:

"I am not here to bash Canon"

and follows that a few minutes later with

"8K is 4 times the amount of data, you are going to destroy your cards and potentially have, you know, a camera that is really going to have overheating issues if they don't cripple the video functionally, which they almost certainly are, if you haven't opened your eyes to what Canon always does. It always gets cropped. The frame rate and codec options are always limited."

I don't usually mind his videos, and I don't think it's unfair to ask what compromises might come with some of these specs, but saying you're not here to bash Canon and then later talking about how Canon always cripples their cameras and will do it here too just feels a bit disingenuous.

 

[HarryFilm]

For good reasons. Perhaps WPPI is the next opportunity?

(Google Translation of Japanese Text)

Notice of cancellation: (Thursday February 13, 2020 at 7pm - Pacific Time)

As the prospects for effective remedies and countermeasures
against the new coronavirus are uncertain, the health and
safety aspects of the visitors are considered first, and as
a result, the event will be held in Pacifico Yokohama
for four days from February 27.

We have decided to cancel the planned CP + 2020

--

We can assume Canon will do ANOTHER Press Release with the NEW specs on full display!

My guess we will POSSIBLY see an updated press release on this coming Monday (Feb 17, 2020)!

--

 

[unfocused]

Except we're rapidly approaching a tipping point where Canon wants us all to join RF, and quickly. They won't force us, but goodness knows they can overtly play favorites with new bodies and refresh cycles. RF will be more frequently updated and RF will lead new generations of bodies and have us wait and hope for an EF equivalent that may never arrive. Each cycle of that peels some more of us off to RF.

I just think simultaneous is a super friendly move for folks like me. Minimize buyers' remorse and you increase your chances of getting my money. But I'm not sure you can win the market with that approach.

- A

I guess I just disagree with the basic premise that Canon is able and willing to manipulate the market in favor of mirrorless. It seems like a very risky strategy in a shrinking market to push about half of your customers to a new format, especially when you have have essentially cut everyone loose with the RF mount. Yes, Canon wants to sell mirrorless cameras and they want to sell expensive RF lenses. But, I'm pretty sure they have done some serious cost-benefit analysis on neglecting/abandoning current DSLR users. The probably have a pretty good idea of what percentage they can convert and what percentage they can't. And, let's admit that they also want to sell DSLRs and EF lenses -- which are probably much more profitable now anyway.

Even if they feel they can convert 80% of full frame DSLR users to mirrorless, I doubt they want to lose that remaining 20%. Everyone says "Canon is going to force us to..." But, last I checked, they don't have a gun to my head.

I'm an R user. I like the system. But, there are things that DSLRs do better. Maybe Canon can close that gap with the next generation of R cameras (and until the R5 is released and we see how it works in the field, we won't know). As an R user, I'm skeptical. But, even if they achieve DSLR speed and quality autofocus and OVF responsiveness, I'm sure they realize that there is a lag between having a product available and having customers adopt that product. The other point I keep trying to make is that DSLR development is not going to be frozen. The 1Dx shows that. We have yet to see how it performs, but if it comes close to the promise, I think it could provide some evidence that Canon is telling the truth when they say they intend to continue to develop both systems.

You say Canon wants us to join the mirrorless market. But it's also possible Canon wants us to have at least two bodies -- mirrorless for what it does best and DSLR for what it does best. In fact, they have probably figured out that there are people like me who bought the RF 24-105 because it was more convenient than constantly switching to an adapter when changing lenses from one body to another.

Now, no one can decipher the mysteries of Canon's marketing and development strategies, so I'm certainly not saying a simultaneous release will happen. Just, from my perspective, I think it might be the strategy that carries the least risk.

 

[David - Sydney]

Sorry I misunderstood you. In that case, it seems like you're asking an obvious question, which is "does everyone else want matching card slots, which will in turn enable higher speed shooting," to which I'm sure the answer is a resounding "yes," despite that it will increase the cost of using the camera. In my observation, not many forumers here would elect for lower specs, when given the choice, although for this one issue, you are obviously one exception.

Maybe not just one exception. Video recording will most likely need CFExpress unless the higher speeds will use external recorders. USH-II SD cards should be fine for stills shooting. Dual CFExpress cards will place a heavy cost burden on the camera until different suppliers and prices come down significantly. All the 1DXiii pricing I am seeing has a single card/reader and body bundled

 

[Optics Patent]

Have you ever used a push-pull zoom? There's no zoom ring. You move the barrel in and out by moving your gripping hand forward and back. No zoom helicoids inside the barrel. No rotational motion. It's like a small frame mounted bicycle pump. Two tubes, one inside the other, that lengthen and contract by moving one end in and out.

Indeed I own a few classic Nikon push pull zooms. No worries about the friction or wear to rotate a zoom ring when pushing or pulling.