Mr. Milo said:transpo1 said:scyrene said:transpo1 said:So if true: it's also a huge score for the 4K crowd- all of our complaining worked and paid off. For all the naysayers who called the 4K crowd "whiners" and told them to shut up because Canon is profitable and knows what they're doing- this is a little proof that Canon does read the forum boards, that the little 4K crusade worked, and that Canon ultimately decided they agree with us. Even if it's only to protect the 5DIV from being cannibalized by the 6DII, it proves they listened and agreed on what video features were lacking. For those of us who haven't jumped on board with the new 5D, it's added incentive and sales will only increase because of it. Like it or not, these days, video matters.
Strictly speaking, this doesn't prove that assertion at all. We don't know why they've decided to do this (if it comes true). Several competing hypotheses have been expressed - it could be long-term repositioning of the lines (e.g. to differentiate more with the 6D2), it could be due to lacklustre sales, it could be due to direct feedback from consumers - especially big customers (i.e. not individuals). If you want to believe that whining on forums is the main decision maker at major companies, then you're free to do so, but it doesn't sound the most convincing one to me.
PS "crusade"? Really?? :![]()
More likely it's due to overall internet "whining," not just on this forum. But interesting that the issues being addressed mirrored all the ones discussed here, no?![]()
P.S.
crusade
[kroo-seyd]
3. any vigorous, aggressive movement for the defense or advancement of an idea, cause, etc.:
You're a hater for no reason. The 5D Mark IV needed this with a lot of people jumping ship to Sony and the new Panasonic GH5. I don't care what Amazon sales say. Canon knew something was up; something BIG that was negative for them so they had to do this when they rarely do.
When this is in place, the 5D Mark IV is respectable and very competitive. I like it.
Bennymiata said:I remember in the Lens Rentals teardown of the 5d4, that Roger said there was a lot of free space in the body.
Perhaps now we know why.
Tugela said:Bennymiata said:I remember in the Lens Rentals teardown of the 5d4, that Roger said there was a lot of free space in the body.
Perhaps now we know why.
That does not make sense. Canon already had more advanced processors in the form of the Digic 7, but did not include it in the 5D4. The Digic 7 is capable of hardware encoding 4K, but it requires active cooling to keep the thermals in check. If it was as simple as adding a heatsink and if the 5D4 had the space to do that, they would have used the Digic 7 in the first place. Instead, they used the older Digic 6 and the software based mpeg solution for 4K video, which is a half-assed stop gap measure to give the camera some 4K features.
bsbeamer said:Mr. Milo said:The 5D Mark IV is still competitive (and a good camera), but it pales to the spec sheet of the GH5.
If this rumor is true, the GH5 may be one of the bigger reasons this update is on the way now. If you look at the GH3 through GH5, it's been a crop evolution continually improving image quality and using more "full frame" especially if you use an adapter or focal reducer. Factoring in the Sony camera sales, it's clear Canon is missing out on market share. Also factoring the shrinking camera market in general (DSLR and mirrorless) this may be an attempt to take back some of the remaining market. For Canon's sake, I hope this rumor is true.
scyrene said:Doesn't a lot of this discussion rely on the assumption that this Panasonic model is a competitor? While it might make a better choice for some users, I doubt Canon sees it that way. They probably sell orders of magnitude more 5D cameras than Panasonic models... Where's Neuro with the stats?!
Sharlin said:scyrene said:Doesn't a lot of this discussion rely on the assumption that this Panasonic model is a competitor? While it might make a better choice for some users, I doubt Canon sees it that way. They probably sell orders of magnitude more 5D cameras than Panasonic models... Where's Neuro with the stats?!
Yeah. I find it very difficult to believe that Canon would consider an m4/3 camera, however awesome, a serious competitor to the 5D4.
Tugela said:The camera they will really be concerned about will be Sony's a9 or a7R3, when those show up, which is rumored to be very soon. Those particular cameras will directly challenge the 5D market aggressively, and THAT is what Canon are worried about.
jayphotoworks said:Sharlin said:scyrene said:Doesn't a lot of this discussion rely on the assumption that this Panasonic model is a competitor? While it might make a better choice for some users, I doubt Canon sees it that way. They probably sell orders of magnitude more 5D cameras than Panasonic models... Where's Neuro with the stats?!
Yeah. I find it very difficult to believe that Canon would consider an m4/3 camera, however awesome, a serious competitor to the 5D4.
It depends if you are considering this from a stills or video perspective. The GH series is much further along for video production work than the 5D4. I rarely see anyone shoot video work with a 5D series body anymore. I see a ton of Sony primarily and to a lesser extent Panasonic.
Tugela said:Mr. Milo said:transpo1 said:scyrene said:transpo1 said:So if true: it's also a huge score for the 4K crowd- all of our complaining worked and paid off. For all the naysayers who called the 4K crowd "whiners" and told them to shut up because Canon is profitable and knows what they're doing- this is a little proof that Canon does read the forum boards, that the little 4K crusade worked, and that Canon ultimately decided they agree with us. Even if it's only to protect the 5DIV from being cannibalized by the 6DII, it proves they listened and agreed on what video features were lacking. For those of us who haven't jumped on board with the new 5D, it's added incentive and sales will only increase because of it. Like it or not, these days, video matters.
Strictly speaking, this doesn't prove that assertion at all. We don't know why they've decided to do this (if it comes true). Several competing hypotheses have been expressed - it could be long-term repositioning of the lines (e.g. to differentiate more with the 6D2), it could be due to lacklustre sales, it could be due to direct feedback from consumers - especially big customers (i.e. not individuals). If you want to believe that whining on forums is the main decision maker at major companies, then you're free to do so, but it doesn't sound the most convincing one to me.
PS "crusade"? Really?? :![]()
More likely it's due to overall internet "whining," not just on this forum. But interesting that the issues being addressed mirrored all the ones discussed here, no?![]()
P.S.
crusade
[kroo-seyd]
3. any vigorous, aggressive movement for the defense or advancement of an idea, cause, etc.:
You're a hater for no reason. The 5D Mark IV needed this with a lot of people jumping ship to Sony and the new Panasonic GH5. I don't care what Amazon sales say. Canon knew something was up; something BIG that was negative for them so they had to do this when they rarely do.
When this is in place, the 5D Mark IV is respectable and very competitive. I like it.
They are probably not that concerned about the GH5, since that occupies a different market space than the 5D cameras. The GH5 is more of a competitor to the Cx00 cameras and the XC series. The camera they will really be concerned about will be Sony's a9 or a7R3, when those show up, which is rumored to be very soon. Those particular cameras will directly challenge the 5D market aggressively, and THAT is what Canon are worried about.
Canon Rumors said:We have been sent more information about the upcoming C-Log update to the EOS 5D Mark IV, while this comes from a new source, it’s pretty detailed.</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV C-Log Update:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>All video output will still be 8-bit.</li>
<li>Sampling for DCI 4K will be increased to a 5632 x 2970 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.27x Crop factor.</li>
<li>Sampling for UHD will be from a 5472 x 3078 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.29x Crop factor.</li>
<li>Both modes are accurately down-sampled to their final resolutions.</li>
<li>Existing frame rates will remain the same.</li>
<li>The current 1:1 4K sampling mode will remain an option for situations benefiting from the 1.78x Crop factor.</li>
<li>There will also be new full-sensor 3K modes added including 60fps and HDR 24fps.Both will use a line-alternating sampling method, so quality will be inferior to the improved 4K format (but better than the existing FullHD 1080p format.) It is unclear whether the file resolution in the final firmware will be the full 3360 x 1890 format or down-sampled to 3072 x 1728.</li>
<li>FullHD 1080p will also use this 3K full-sensor mode with down-sampling for a noticeable improvement in perceived resolution.</li>
<li>FullHD 1080p will also receive a modest frame rate boost to 72/75fps.</li>
<li>The EOS 5D Mark IV will gain the XF-AVC file format at 120Mbps (4:2:0) and 200Mbps (4:2:2). Both formats should require low enough data rates to accommodate UHS-I U3 type SD Cards.</li>
<li>Reports relating to a possible service job for the 5D Mark IV are the result of the heat sinks on current units not performing well in some environments when used with the newer firmware. This is because of the increased processing load from the enlarged video sampling area. Newer units will ship with an improved heat sink while existing 5D Mark IV units can be retrofitted. Pricing is unconfirmed for that servicing.</li>
<li>The newer firmware will still work in non-serviced cameras, but this may result in premature temperature warnings.</li>
</ul>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
eguzowski said:...obviously there sales of the 5D IV Joke of a video DLR were tricking and they though, "huh..so now were going to piss off the pros with a 6D mark II with better 4k because the market won't take our bullS___ anymore."
Mikehit said:eguzowski said:...obviously there sales of the 5D IV Joke of a video DLR were tricking and they though, "huh..so now were going to piss off the pros with a 6D mark II with better 4k because the market won't take our bullS___ anymore."
Wow! What a lot of hate.
Having a firmware this significant so soon after release is more likely to be stuff they planned at the time of release rather than your more fanciful 'slap in the face'.
If Canon is causing you so much stress why not just switch to Sony and have done with it...then watch helplessly as Canon surpass Sony.
mps said:you really believe that? so in your eyes canon realeased after 4(?) years of waiting the 5d4 and then rushed it out without the intended firmware? no man, not even canon.. this is just a reaction to the whole market situation: videoshooters leave canon by the thousands, and this is the only idea they had to somewhat fight that trend. too late, too little canon. either this or the whole thing about the firmwareupdate is an early april fools joke (which i tend to believe)
also to me it seesms canon doesnt take videoshooters seriously. c100 doesnt even do broadcast quality, the c300 is a joke regarding the price, and the c700 tires (and miserably fails) to be an arri amira. their 8k solution is a joke, especially if you see the canon monster rig required for that next to a red.... their propperly specced cameras (c300II) are way overpriced, the whole dslr range (including the c100) is underpowered. canon, stick to make printers, thats what you are good at....
cpreston said:The 1DX II will not get any advanced video futures. The 1DX is considered Canon's "pro" DSLR and they don't want to annoy real photographers.