Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
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RustyTheGeek said:
RustTheGeek: you hit the nail. That was my second thought after pushing post: But it's more expensive than the Canon 6D. So what...;-) Hope they'll come out with a low res AE-1ish retro product. I like these buttons and stuff. So, come on Canon bring it on, but don't cash in on us for the retrolook...Lol... 18MP, very usable ISO 102K. Might be too much of wishful thinking... 8)
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AvTvM said:
How can you miss the point? I'll put it simply:
Selling in volume reduces costs per camera. By a lot.
Thus if having video features increases sales a lot then that camera is /cheaper/ than if it didn't include video (and sold a lot less).
When you say the stills version should cost less you are being ignorant; a stills version would cost more than the 'dual use' version we have now simply because it wouldn't take advantage of the economies of scale in both manufacturing, distribution and retail.
The video guys aren't piggybacking on you; you're piggybacking on them!
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tiger82 said:
Or would I buy the Sony a7 AND the Zeiss 24-70/4 for the same price?
Nikon went all wrong on two important things: AF and MP.
You can't sell a camera for 3K in (almost) 2014 and have the same AF module of a middle-range consumer camera from the last generation (D5200).
With the performance of the 24MP D600/D610 sensor, it is all to be demonstrated what we're buying at the price of 8 MP, and if it's worth it. Better to buy a D800 and resize the files to 16MP. This camera doesn't offer amazing fps either, so the advantages of lower resolution are...?
As a final touch, a kit would be welcome with a better lens than the 50mm/1.8 - the 1.4 version, at least? Please?
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"...why Canon seems to care more about the videographer than the photographer now."
What?!? Canon gives a Sh*t on videographers! They setup just very medicore and crippled quality for videographers with tons of moiré, aliasing and barlely HD resolution all in beatifully mash-o-rama of horrible codec and low color bit depth. This is not quality Canon picture as we know it from photography. Its a gimmick. Instead of Canon company some enthusiasts from Magic Lantern helped for free to change video quality and finaly open the holly grail of RAW videography for few models. Thats it. I highly doubt you will get better photo camera if there will be no video in Canon cameras.
Even Nikon has better video quality in their cameras. I think you should blame somebody else
What?!? Canon gives a Sh*t on videographers! They setup just very medicore and crippled quality for videographers with tons of moiré, aliasing and barlely HD resolution all in beatifully mash-o-rama of horrible codec and low color bit depth. This is not quality Canon picture as we know it from photography. Its a gimmick. Instead of Canon company some enthusiasts from Magic Lantern helped for free to change video quality and finaly open the holly grail of RAW videography for few models. Thats it. I highly doubt you will get better photo camera if there will be no video in Canon cameras.
Even Nikon has better video quality in their cameras. I think you should blame somebody else
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I don't get all the hating on this body, is that because it's not Canon or what?
While I've gotten used to Canon's controls on the 7D/5DIII, I've always yearned for the days of manual cameras.
The older manual cameras had the controls you needed as dials, which was nice. Digital added some stuff, like white balance control, that would need another dial. And then there is metering and AI servo and AF points, so maybe it's just not possible to give you all the controls as dials. I'd have to play with the Nikon to see how close they came.
At first glance it appears like Nikon was trying to build something for people like me that didn't want to wander through all menus. Canon's higher end cameras have buttons for all the stuff you want but the low end ones are more awkward. I dunno, at least Nikon is trying. Canon seems to be coasting. Where is the 7DII?
While I've gotten used to Canon's controls on the 7D/5DIII, I've always yearned for the days of manual cameras.
The older manual cameras had the controls you needed as dials, which was nice. Digital added some stuff, like white balance control, that would need another dial. And then there is metering and AI servo and AF points, so maybe it's just not possible to give you all the controls as dials. I'd have to play with the Nikon to see how close they came.
At first glance it appears like Nikon was trying to build something for people like me that didn't want to wander through all menus. Canon's higher end cameras have buttons for all the stuff you want but the low end ones are more awkward. I dunno, at least Nikon is trying. Canon seems to be coasting. Where is the 7DII?
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
Expat said:
Very good article and he makes a lot of valid points. I'd encourage everyone to take the time to read it. Thanks for the link.
AvTvM said:
That's a really horrible analogy. Ships charge a premium for a cabin with a sea view because there is a limited supply. Simple case of supply and demand.
Adding video to a camera increases the demand, but there is no practical limit to the supply, so the cost gets spread over a larger base and goes down.
If a cruise ship could be built with 10,000 cabins all with sea views, the sea view cabins would be cheaper than a 500 passenger ship with a mixture. Of course, you'd then complain how unfair it was for you to have to "pay" for a sea view when you don't want to look out the window.
RustyTheGeek said:
Good point (Although I'd prefer an F-1 to an AE-1). If this new Nikon were half the price there would be a lot more swooning.
Funny thing is, the self-important, pompous advertising campaign seems to suck all the fun right out of this camera. They seem to be saying "this is a serious camera for serious photographers with some serious disposable income to spend so they can show people how serious of a photographer they are as they take serious pictures of campfires in the middle of the night, seriously."
I sort of think Nikon missed the point that Fuji made with the X-Pro. Yes, the Fuji's are retro-looking but they are certainly not retro-functioning. Fuji got the design right. The only thing I can say about Nikon is that this camera isn't nearly as clueless as the Hasselblad Lunar.
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I am sorry to say but I am a total sucker for retro. I would buy this in a heartbeat if it were canon.
Though I don't understand why they did not include video, wouldn't make much of a difference to me since I have used it exactly once on my 5d3 just to try it out.
Though I don't understand why they did not include video, wouldn't make much of a difference to me since I have used it exactly once on my 5d3 just to try it out.
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AvTvM said:
I see where the motivation to hope for this comes from, but until the photo/video world is monopolized by Comcast, this would be purely idiotic for a company to try. Not to mention, your suggestion benefits no one including yourself (well maybe Canon, assuming all their competition with video DSLRs immediately dies out). The cost to add video is completely insignificant in comparison to the total price of a DSLR, and huge in terms of making it a more valuable product.
My theory is that there is ONE reason why "purists" shun new tech. I work with them every day. It's envy and inadequacy. Back in their day when gear was too expensive for a non "professional" and there were less variables put into what the final product would be, it was easier to stand out and receive compliments. One of my coworkers is 60+ and [was] a photographer. We also have younger designers who do photography. The old guy is constantly preaching, "its not about the camera, its about the photographer" , "its a camera, why do you need video", etc. Everyone is respectful, and everyone (if only out of respect) lets him assume his role as the photography "expert". But even looking down to the basics, everyone is better than him at simply taking well-framed, interesting shots—while old man Wither is reminiscing about the old days and how much better his hometown was than our city, we're working in the entire adobe suite, not just lightroom. Don't get me wrong, I love nice gear, but ALSO appreciate going back to basics. I'll leave my full frame at home and use my iphone if I think I'll be in a situation where it'll more likely get the photos I want and not need the ridiculous IQ of my 5D.
The fact is, you can still accomplish what you could with an old camera. Put that self discipline to work, practice what you preach, put your camera in M and frame some nice photos. Meanwhile, I'll be taking video with the same camera.
AvTvM said:
This analogy might be half valid if each camera model were only a released with a predetermined, limited quantity, just like cruise tickets are sold.... in which case exclusivity would justify the price. Thats only touching the surface, but youre so far off here... it's not really worth going into economics 101.
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As a hybrid shooter, I am a little bias. But WHY would nikon make this camera have no video feature? The fact that it is missing video is what makes nikon, and ANY camera manufacturer lose my business and respect. At that point they are not trying to make the best camera they can, or push the market. They are just creating a gimic-ish product that WILL sell, because most people, don't know any better.
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distant.star said:
"Every day I enjoy my 5D3 more than ever." I was thinking the exact same thing last weekend.
BTW ... with this Nikon DF, compared to the new Sony A7 and A7R, ... I think we are leaving the Canikon era and entering the era of SonyCan !
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Etienne said:
Oops ... the threads at CR full of "Nikon is innovating" when the D800 came out. It took only a few zero events such as the D610 fiasco, the underwater camera and the Df to take the wind out of their innovating sails.
And then there is Sony, who want to do something new every 6 months ... Those getting the A7/A7r must sure be hoping it is not another new mount
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JoeyJonaitis said:
They may be responding to that small percentage of buyers who feel put-out, insulted, or diminished by the rise of video and the relative retreat of photography (especially in the pro arena). Some of these photogs resent that their camera has a feature that costs them nothing extra, weighs nothing, and is easily ignored, but that other photogs embrace with success and enthusiasm.
I would not buy a camera today that lacks video, in fact I have the 5DIII because it is the best overall photo/video camera I could afford. I still love photography, but I am learning video as quickly as I can. But I', not particularly brand loyal. I am watching Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, and even Nikon ... but the sum of all strengths and weaknesses still keeps me in the Canon camp.
I am seriously hoping that Canon has a response to the Sony A7 series, that sony puts the RX10 in a true video body, that Canon makes an XA20 type camera with APS-C, that the C100 gets 60p, h.264, and a price drop, that my 5D3 gets focus peaking by firmware , .... the list goes on, but you get the picture
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While the camera really seems to annoy some here, I am sure it will attract a fair amount of interest but the price may put off a few.
The real issue here is Nikon is trying to cash in on the retro craze that is not just limited to cameras. They just may be overplaying their hand and hoping to collect the funds of hobbyists they hear on the internet bemoaning the loss of simplicity and directness of old style SLRs.
Sadly, they were not listening to their comments indicating how cheap they were.
The real issue here is Nikon is trying to cash in on the retro craze that is not just limited to cameras. They just may be overplaying their hand and hoping to collect the funds of hobbyists they hear on the internet bemoaning the loss of simplicity and directness of old style SLRs.
Sadly, they were not listening to their comments indicating how cheap they were.
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Albi86 said:
When shooting a film camera the controls were few so operating the camera was fairly easy. Now, given the plethora of dials, knobs and levers, would operating the camera like the Df at night be easy?
The current DSLRs provide all the controls (while shooting) with a single hand. With the Df, one will have to use both hands which IMHO will present more problems than solutions.
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