Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df

[neuroanatomist]

Um, can't really compare Df to D610, Df doesn't have D610 guts, it's got D4 guts at less than half the price.

You seem to be one of those folks for whom "sensor" is synonymous with "camera." Do you make camera purchase decisions based solely on DxOMark Sensor Scores? FYI, there's more inside a camera than the sensor. Let's look, shall we?

D4 Df D610 Like D4? Like D610?
Sensor 16 MP 16 MP 24 MP ✓
AF points 51 (15 cross) 39 (9 cross) 39 (9 cross) ✓
AF sensitivity -2 EV -1 EV -1 EV ✓
Metering sensor 91,000 pixel 2,016 pixel 2,016 pixel ✓
Max shutter 1/8000 s 1/4000 s 1/4000 s ✓
X-sync 1/250 s 1/200 s 1/200 s ✓
Exposure Comp ±5 EV ±3 EV ±3 EV ✓

Look at that list, and explain how the 'guts' of the Df are more like the D4 than the D600/610...

Allow me to repeat my earlier statement, with a few modifications: What Nikon has done here is analogous to taking a modern, powerful, fuel-efficient engine, (the D4 sensor), handicapping that engine with a three speed transmission (the D600/610 AF sensor, metering sensor, shutter assembly, etc.)...putting it into a Subaru Brat...and slapping on a Mercedes price sticker.

 

[GmwDarkroom]

I love the idea of a camera focused on photography and ditching the video.

However if it means going back to 70's ergonomics, I'll pass. The first time I got my hands on a T90 was my farewell to that miniscule grip on SLRs.

At least it doesn't use those LR44 batteries.

 

[iron-t]

I really like the style and the control layout looks wonderful, but isn't it hard to justify a $2700 price tag on a body with a 16 MP sensor? A few years ago that would have been pro spec, but not so much now. A used 1D4 shooting 10 FPS is pretty close in price, and if you need full frame a 1Ds3 is cheaper and has much higher resolution.

Lack of video is not a feature. I almost never shoot video but I'm not sad my 5D3 can do it. I get the feeling Nikon is positioning the Df to appeal to status seekers looking to prove they're REALLY SERIOUS about photography. To whom I say: SHOW ME THE IMAGES!

 

[Radiating]

This camera is also probably the best street photography camera that exists. The sensor has the lowest noise level of any full frame current DSLR. This is the first compact camera to have a full frame ultra low noise sensor in a compact body. Noise is always my biggest issue in street photography.

The purpose of the Nikon DF is in no way a fashion accessory because a camera is not part of an outfit. If anything it's a tool that is built in a way that is designed to appeal to the photographer, not onlookers.

Creating art is sometimes about the process more than about the result or performance and having a pleasing tool is nice. Besides that the manual controls make you more involved in the general process.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Um, can't really compare Df to D610, Df doesn't have D610 guts, it's got D4 guts at less than half the price.

You seem to be one of those folks for whom "sensor" is synonymous with "camera." Do you make camera purchase decisions based solely on DxOMark Sensor Scores? FYI, there's more inside a camera than the sensor. Let's look, shall we?

D4 Df D610 Like D4? Like D610?
Sensor 16 MP 16 MP 24 MP ✓
AF points 51 (15 cross) 39 (9 cross) 39 (9 cross) ✓
AF sensitivity -2 EV -1 EV -1 EV ✓
Metering sensor 91,000 pixel 2,016 pixel 2,016 pixel ✓
Max shutter 1/8000 s 1/4000 s 1/4000 s ✓
X-sync 1/250 s 1/200 s 1/200 s ✓
Exposure Comp ±5 EV ±3 EV ±3 EV ✓

Look at that list, and explain how the 'guts' of the Df are more like the D4 than the D600/610...

Allow me to repeat my earlier statement, with a few modifications: What Nikon has done here is analogous to taking a modern, powerful, fuel-efficient engine, (the D4 sensor), handicapping that engine with a three speed transmission (the D600/610 AF sensor, metering sensor, shutter assembly, etc.)...putting it into a Subaru Brat...and slapping on a Mercedes price sticker.

Beautifully composed.

 

[sanj]

This camera is also probably the best street photography camera that exists. The sensor has the lowest noise level of any full frame current DSLR. This is the first compact camera to have a full frame ultra low noise sensor in a compact body. Noise is always my biggest issue in street photography.

The purpose of the Nikon DF is in no way a fashion accessory because a camera is not part of an outfit. If anything it's a tool that is built in a way that is designed to appeal to the photographer, not onlookers.

Creating art is sometimes about the process more than about the result or performance and having a pleasing tool is nice. Besides that the manual controls make you more involved in the general process.

You mostly right in my opinion. Except for looks of a camera does matter to the photographer.

 

[Sporgon]

"Every day I enjoy my 5D3 more than ever." I was thinking the exact same thing last weekend.

BTW ... with this Nikon DF, compared to the new Sony A7 and A7R, ... I think we are leaving the Canikon era and entering the era of SonyCan !

Certainly the Canon 5 & 6D form have a simple but functional beauty. The DF was Nikons chance to compete with this. I'd have to use one before making a judgement for myself. Pictures can be misleading. However at the moment I'd say if someone wants a small FF slr for 'pure photography' ( the Nikon definition ) then a 6D fitted with manual screen and a cache of Zeiss lenses would fit the bill.

Oh ! And don't switch the video function on

 

[tolusina]

Oh sheet, thats what I wear when riding my fixed gear.
Er, "fixie", a newbie, Hipster term I just can't absorb. Maybe, If I ever convert my Mixte to fixed gear, I might call that "fixte".

Do you also wear slightly to moderately oversized glasses? And buy new releases on vinyl?

Nope. Ray Ban Aviators, they are set of nicely by my silver beard.
Nope again, sold off vinyl when it was only just old, not yet ancient. I do miss setting up tone arms though. I miss changing film rolls too, but I don't miss having to change film rolls.

 

[sanj]

Nothing wrong with vinyl.

 

[Etienne]

Oh sheet, thats what I wear when riding my fixed gear.
Er, "fixie", a newbie, Hipster term I just can't absorb. Maybe, If I ever convert my Mixte to fixed gear, I might call that "fixte".

Do you also wear slightly to moderately oversized glasses? And buy new releases on vinyl?

Nope. Ray Ban Aviators, they are set of nicely by my silver beard.
Nope again, sold off vinyl when it was only just old, not yet ancient. I do miss setting up tone arms though. I miss changing film rolls too, but I don't miss having to change film rolls.

You're not much older than me. But the only thing I miss from the days of my youth, is my youth.

 

[SPL]

I like it…and I kinda get it….oh well. I have a thing for the X100s and would like Canon to make something similar; retro, FF, no video (I absolutely have no use for it…,that’s just me though), and would accept my L glass. But I also agree with many,..this may be a marketing ploy to scoop up buyers. This will be an interesting thread to watch over the next day or so…but,….I like it

 

[poias]

That is an ugly camera. People will be flocking to Canon, so hold on to your hats folks. I will be putting my gear on craigslist to lure wary Nikon users.

 

[J.R.]

The more I think about it the more it feels like Nikon is having its own "Limited Edition PowerShot" moment on a larger scale. At least, Canon had the sense to keep it a "limited edition". After the first rush of purchases from the old-school club (most probably in their 50s or more) is complete, I don't see a market for the Df - I doubt whether this is a camera the young crowd will aspire to - seems much too clunky.

 

[infared]

I think it is a cool camera (I am old school)..not that I would by it...as it is WAAAAAAAAAY overpriced.
My FM2 was VERY inexpensive compared to my F2AS.
I have a Canon FF system..
But I am eying the Sony A7 & A7r way more than a camera like the Nikon...even if Canon made one...(the price would be HIGHER)...I still would be getting a crick in my neck with the Sonys....(if they just had some decent, fast AF lenses..I'd be outta here).
I do love the fact that there is no video on the new Nikon...love it! WOW...its JUST a camera...to me that is refreshing....(certainly not enough for me to change systems, though....).
I believe my next camera is going to be the Olympus M1. Small is nice.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Assuming Leica M9 can sell 1000 units per year, this Nikon DF can sell 5000 units per year. A success of this Nikon ugly can steal market Leica M9. 8)

 

[tolusina]

Um, can't really compare Df to D610, Df doesn't have D610 guts, it's got D4 guts at less than half the price.

You seem to be one of those folks for whom "sensor" is synonymous with "camera." Do you make camera purchase decisions based solely on DxOMark Sensor Scores? FYI, there's more inside a camera than the sensor. Let's look, shall we?

D4 Df D610 Like D4? Like D610?
Sensor 16 MP 16 MP 24 MP ✓
AF points 51 (15 cross) 39 (9 cross) 39 (9 cross) ✓
AF sensitivity -2 EV -1 EV -1 EV ✓
Metering sensor 91,000 pixel 2,016 pixel 2,016 pixel ✓
Max shutter 1/8000 s 1/4000 s 1/4000 s ✓
X-sync 1/250 s 1/200 s 1/200 s ✓
Exposure Comp ±5 EV ±3 EV ±3 EV ✓

Look at that list, and explain how the 'guts' of the Df are more like the D4 than the D600/610...

Allow me to repeat my earlier statement, with a few modifications: What Nikon has done here is analogous to taking a modern, powerful, fuel-efficient engine, (the D4 sensor), handicapping that engine with a three speed transmission (the D600/610 AF sensor, metering sensor, shutter assembly, etc.)...putting it into a Subaru Brat...and slapping on a Mercedes price sticker.

Hmm, and are you one of those folks that thinks something other than the sensor is the real heart and soul of a camera?
Think back to film SLR days, one could and did change image characteristics by changing film. We can't do that anymore. You, well maybe not you, I select sensor characteristics, then accept the body that sensor comes in.

Nice chart, hope it wasn't too much work.

AF is only wishfully mature, it's really still an acne faced adolescent.
Make a guess please, what percentage of threads here on CR are expressions of exasperation with AF performance, 15%, 30%, more? Less? There are a lot, whatever the percentage is.

I have to bite my fingertips every time I see any complaint about AF performance, I really want to type out advice about learning how to quickly and accurately take over from AF P&S, get to manual focus and get the shot.
Poke around, select individual points? Really??? You've got time for that? You practice that?
Why is AFM now built in? Because AF technology is still immature, it should just work making that DSLR AF function as simple as P&S.
Manual focus, just take over at the first sign of the AF gimmick's failure to perform.

So, all the AF point differences listed in your chart are relatively low weight.

Yup, the metering number differences in your chart look huge, do they mean much to the final exposure? Seems to me that selecting the final exposure variables is one of the things that sets photographers apart and above iPhone shooters.
How's the weight of metering number differences holding up now?

The rest of the chart, nits, no, not nuts, nits.

Automotive analogy, really Neuro, as long as you've been here, you should know better.
Sure, let's take the latest Corvette engine, stuff it in the back of a Brat, but let's just use a two speed PowerGlide, step out of the way please, no MBZ price tag involved. We do want to jack in some good brakes.
A better automotive analogy to what Nikon has done with this Df, would be taking something like say, a '67 Fairlane Convertible to a tuner shop like Roush, Saleen or Hurst, install the mechanical guts from a 2013 Mustang. You'll still have to put the top down by hand, adjust the mirrors by hand, no power locks, no automated climate control, just basic A/C, no computer controlled seat adjusters, no computers at all excepting those needed for engine management.
---
All that said, previous experience wearing out two Nikon DSLRs causes me to (currently, subject to change as absolutes are) never ever want to own another Nikon.

Even with that said as a former Nikon fan, I definitely think the Df is cool stuff, even better if it inspires Pentax to a FF digital LX.

Um, er, only 50 some posts, I've drawn Neuro's ire already, oh my......

 

[Chosenbydestiny]

Wow, they took video away and made it more expensive. I guess that takes away the useless assumption that video adds to the price =P

 

[neuroanatomist]

Think back to film SLR days, one could and did change image characteristics by changing film. We can't do that anymore.

Yes, the Nikon Df harkens back the the days of yore, when photography was pure. Today we have these nifty things called computers. I can make my images look like they were shot with Tmax or Velvia (both of which I used, long ago), all after the fact. Plus, it's kinda nice not to have to burn the rest of the roll, or rewind carefully to leave a tab exposed, when wanting to change ISO speed.

You, well maybe not you, I select sensor characteristics, then accept the body that sensor comes in.

Not me, that's true. I evaluate camera characteristics, of which the sensor is an important one, but far from the only one. If you accept a body with AF performance that doesn't get the job done or a frame rate that's too slow for your needs, then the best sensor IQ in the world won't yield sharp images, or images of the peak of action.

Wait, you said something about AF, right?

I have to bite my fingertips every time I see any complaint about AF performance, I really want to type out advice about learning how to quickly and accurately take over from AF P&S, get to manual focus and get the shot.
Poke around, select individual points? Really??? You've got time for that? You practice that?
Why is AFM now built in? Because AF technology is still immature, it should just work making that DSLR AF function as simple as P&S.
Manual focus, just take over at the first sign of the AF gimmick's failure to perform.

Your fingertips must be scarred rather badly by now. In the manual focus days, we had cameras and lenses that were designed for it - stock focusing screens that didn't make fast lenses seem slower, lenses with smooth manual focus rings that had a nice, long throw (even among L lenses, only my 600 II seems to echo that feel). Granted, some cameras can be fitted with appropriate focusing screens (notably, not the Nikon Df, for all it's retromagical 'purity'), and there are some lenses that are good for MF (most of those predate modern lens design and coatings optimized for digital imaging). However, to suggest falling back on manual focus as a routine practice makes about as much sense as recommending that everyone use an abacus to fill out their tax return.

Um, er, only 50 some posts, I've drawn Neuro's ire already, oh my......

It's not the quantity, but rather, the quality...or more precisely, the lack thereof, that I find annoying.

 

[klickflip]

As a photographer who grew up on Nikon FM's at college and many other larger format manual film cameras -

I THINK THIS IS AWESOME.

Funnily enough I always used a Canon A1 hand down from my dad, that was always scoffed at by tutors and staff!

I think this will be a great manual feeling camera to use and make you smile turning the dials to change shutter speed , iso etc. Shame they missed the aperture ring on the lens and didnt go for the F1.4 version at this price point, but guess you have the option to use older MF lenses to get the full experience back.

Now for the haters, a hybrid / copy will always have some faults that could of been done nicer. Prob to save cost and keep functionality.

Everyone discussing to death / slagging the Sensor / AF insides etc is nuts, It will be a very decent camera good that is very capable. Good enough AF for most of circumstances, and a very nice D4like sensor.

Yes its slightly expensive for (as some will say 'just a 16 MP camera with D600/D4 old tech') but you're missing the point.

I see this selling in bucket loads to older mainly retired enthusiasts, who loved their F's and probably have 7Ds or D300s/600s now. This will make past Nikon users switch back and feel really satisfied and warm inside.

Very well done Nikon! I hope to see a few more cameras like this.. not too many tho. but gauranteed some more will copy and release horrible retro versions with a couple of token dials and a silver top just to cash in on retro sales.

 

[Promature]

Um, er, only 50 some posts, I've drawn Neuro's ire already, oh my......

Because you seem to lack the ability to argue with facts, and so you argue with emotion. This will not get you far, except with the media.

So the F-150 and Mustang both have a 3.7L V6. Heck, the same 2.0T I4 is found in the Focus ST, the Fusion, and the Lincoln MKZ. Would you say they are the same car? Does the package surrounding the engine define the purpose of the car? Just because the sensor (motor) is the same, doesn't mean the package is the same.