Predictions on What to Expect From Canon in 2016

dilbert said:
rs said:
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Yeah, right. How can you compare Nikon D750 AF combined with a third party reverse engineered lens vs Canon 7D II and the Canon 100-400 II? Especially the D750 with its AF points all crammed into the centre of the frame against the 7D mk II. The two don't compare.
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What many people fail to remember is that FF sensors are bigger and thus make the small area that is AF covered look small even though the AF sensor is often the same size on FF as on crop.

Best way to think of it is like the attached JPEG... black represents the sensor, red the AF covered area.

That the AF sensor in the crop camera appears "larger" is an optical illusion.

For subjects framed the same, the AF point for a FF sensor would have to be in the same position relative to the edges of the frame. If that area is empty because the AF points spread remains the same in absolute terms, that's an issue.
 
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privatebydesign said:
RickWagoner said:
privatebydesign said:
unfocused said:
RGF said:
unfocused said:
I'm also surprised that Canon Rumors Guy is putting the 200-600 that high on the list. It would be nice to see it released in 2016, but I'm not that optimistic.

If it is released, I expect a lot of people on this forum will be disappointed at the price. Being very optimistic, I expect it to be somewhere north of $2,500 -- a little higher than the Sigma sports lens but less than $1,000 more.

afraid you may be correct about the price though the Nikon 200-400 is below $1500. Wonder if Canon will try to compete with this lens and not make the 200-600 consumer grade and not L

I can't see Canon releasing a 200-600 that is less than either the list price of the Sigma Sports Lens or less than the price of the 100-400. While third party manufacturers may "trick" the autofocus into thinking an f6.3 lens is an f5.6, Canon won't do that, which means it must be f5.6. It will also be USM, as a slow-focusing 200-600mm is not going to cut it. I don't think Canon will worry too much about the pricing of the Nikon -- it's not like Canon users will buy a Nikon lens. Finally, Canon is not blind to the value of putting a red ring on their lenses, which adds to the perceived value.

Honestly, if a 200-600 materializes for under $3,000 it will sell very well. As for me personally, I'll keep using my 150-600 Sigma Contemporary until the Canon shows up in the refurbished store on a 15% off sale, which means I'm probably two years or more away from getting this lens when and if it materializes.

You guys are crazy, under $3,000 for a 107mm front element 200-600mm L IS tele zoom, that is the same sized front element with more internal elements and much more complicated build as well as being bigger and heavier than the 300 f2.8 IS MkII that costs $6,000.

Canon will lose the birders if they don't compete with the 150-600s, only thing that has kept birders with Canon is the old 100-400 and 400 5.6 back in the day. Now Nikon and even Sony bodies can be used with great for the price glass. This opens up a new world of dr for birders amongst other things. Only few people care enough about the L build quality when there is a great optic at a lower price. It is like the 55-250stm is the king lens for backyard beginner bird shooters, no reason to upgrade to anything else because the optic is that great for the price. Do a plastic 55-250stm optic in a 200-600mm ef-s mount and Canon Will keep their hold on the birding market. Why do you think the 7d2 is $1k now? for the $1700 price birders could go with a Tamron or Sigma lens on a D750 and still get usable fps and buffer but entirely different world with high iso, full frame or in crop mode, more features and just as great focusing system for a couple hundred dollars more. On the streets and in the forest i have seen more D750s being used than 7d2s by birders in the last year, hell before the days Tamron announced the 150-600 you were lucky to see two people with Nikon bodies shooting because it was all Canon with 100-400 or 400 5.6's...those days are done for Canon though.

I am not saying Canon can't or won't make a 150-600 'competitor' to the low priced third parties if they feel the need, just that a 200-600 f5.6 L IS as rumoured isn't it.

There is no reason Canon couldn't make a non L 200-600 at any price point they chose they needed to compete in, but it wouldn't be an L lens and it wouldn't be f5.6.
It is all a question of quality....

If you want a 200-600 F5.6 of similar quality to the 200-400 F4, you can expect to pay $10,000 for it. If you want one of the quality level of the Tamron 150-600 and want the Canon name on it, expect to pay $1500.

How much you pay for such a lens will depend on just where in the scale Canon places it..... but remember, the Tamron is a nice lens and can be bought under $1000... Make the lens 3X range instead of 4X range and you can make it sharper with similar materials... Add in some better glass and you could get a considerably better lens and still keep it to $2500 and you could even call it an "L" lens.
 
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Don Haines said:
AvTvM said:
As every year, Canon will not bring anything that excites me:

Canon never makes gear that excites me....

It's just solid, reliable, no surprises, keeps on doing a good job...... no excitement at all....

Oil-splattered sensors, lossy compression or unnecessarily bloated files, >30-day service turnaround if something breaks – now, that's excitement!
 
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Don Haines said:
privatebydesign said:
RickWagoner said:
privatebydesign said:
unfocused said:
RGF said:
unfocused said:
I'm also surprised that Canon Rumors Guy is putting the 200-600 that high on the list. It would be nice to see it released in 2016, but I'm not that optimistic.

If it is released, I expect a lot of people on this forum will be disappointed at the price. Being very optimistic, I expect it to be somewhere north of $2,500 -- a little higher than the Sigma sports lens but less than $1,000 more.

afraid you may be correct about the price though the Nikon 200-400 is below $1500. Wonder if Canon will try to compete with this lens and not make the 200-600 consumer grade and not L

I can't see Canon releasing a 200-600 that is less than either the list price of the Sigma Sports Lens or less than the price of the 100-400. While third party manufacturers may "trick" the autofocus into thinking an f6.3 lens is an f5.6, Canon won't do that, which means it must be f5.6. It will also be USM, as a slow-focusing 200-600mm is not going to cut it. I don't think Canon will worry too much about the pricing of the Nikon -- it's not like Canon users will buy a Nikon lens. Finally, Canon is not blind to the value of putting a red ring on their lenses, which adds to the perceived value.

Honestly, if a 200-600 materializes for under $3,000 it will sell very well. As for me personally, I'll keep using my 150-600 Sigma Contemporary until the Canon shows up in the refurbished store on a 15% off sale, which means I'm probably two years or more away from getting this lens when and if it materializes.

You guys are crazy, under $3,000 for a 107mm front element 200-600mm L IS tele zoom, that is the same sized front element with more internal elements and much more complicated build as well as being bigger and heavier than the 300 f2.8 IS MkII that costs $6,000.

Canon will lose the birders if they don't compete with the 150-600s, only thing that has kept birders with Canon is the old 100-400 and 400 5.6 back in the day. Now Nikon and even Sony bodies can be used with great for the price glass. This opens up a new world of dr for birders amongst other things. Only few people care enough about the L build quality when there is a great optic at a lower price. It is like the 55-250stm is the king lens for backyard beginner bird shooters, no reason to upgrade to anything else because the optic is that great for the price. Do a plastic 55-250stm optic in a 200-600mm ef-s mount and Canon Will keep their hold on the birding market. Why do you think the 7d2 is $1k now? for the $1700 price birders could go with a Tamron or Sigma lens on a D750 and still get usable fps and buffer but entirely different world with high iso, full frame or in crop mode, more features and just as great focusing system for a couple hundred dollars more. On the streets and in the forest i have seen more D750s being used than 7d2s by birders in the last year, hell before the days Tamron announced the 150-600 you were lucky to see two people with Nikon bodies shooting because it was all Canon with 100-400 or 400 5.6's...those days are done for Canon though.

I am not saying Canon can't or won't make a 150-600 'competitor' to the low priced third parties if they feel the need, just that a 200-600 f5.6 L IS as rumoured isn't it.

There is no reason Canon couldn't make a non L 200-600 at any price point they chose they needed to compete in, but it wouldn't be an L lens and it wouldn't be f5.6.
It is all a question of quality....

If you want a 200-600 F5.6 of similar quality to the 200-400 F4, you can expect to pay $10,000 for it. If you want one of the quality level of the Tamron 150-600 and want the Canon name on it, expect to pay $1500.

How much you pay for such a lens will depend on just where in the scale Canon places it..... but remember, the Tamron is a nice lens and can be bought under $1000... Make the lens 3X range instead of 4X range and you can make it sharper with similar materials... Add in some better glass and you could get a considerably better lens and still keep it to $2500 and you could even call it an "L" lens.

It is worth remembering that a 600mm f5.6 front element is 30% larger by area than a 600mm f6.3.

As I said, if Canon choose to make a tele zoom to compete at the price point of the Tamron and Sigma 150-600's, it won't be an L and it won't be f5.6. Besides, there seem to be plenty of images and comparison examples that demonstrate the 100-400 MkII cropped is every bit the match for the third parties at 600, Canon could argue they already have the L f5.6 competitor in the 100-600 range.
 
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I don't really see the point of Canon coming out with a new 800mm f5.6 IS II so soon. The current lens has a lot more in common with the series II big whites than it does with the older models. When it first came out it was a couple of pounds lighter than the 600 f4 with the new streamlined profile and had the current 4 stop IS. They could shave a little bit of weight off the current model perhaps by eliminating the front protective glass element as they have done with the 600 f4 IS II, but it wouldn't be a radical amount. Adding the IS 3 mode could be nice, but probably not worth the cost of an upgrade to many current owners. I don't see Canon going to the trouble of upgrading the 800 until there is some serious new technology to add to it. I think it will still be a few more years, maybe 2018 or 19 before this lens is upgraded and will show what is to come with the series III big whites.
 
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HA! I would love to go back and read the predictions for 2015. Almost half of these predictions would have been on it, and never come around, while other camera manufacturers continued to release groundbreaking tech in their new products. Shine on Canon!
 
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privatebydesign said:
As I said, if Canon choose to make a tele zoom to compete at the price point of the Tamron and Sigma 150-600's, it won't be an L and it won't be f5.6.

Awww, c'mon. People on this forum are asking so nicely, I'm sure Canon will answer with a 200-600/5.6L IS for under $1,000. Gotta compete with Tamron/Sigma. ;)
 
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neuroanatomist said:
privatebydesign said:
As I said, if Canon choose to make a tele zoom to compete at the price point of the Tamron and Sigma 150-600's, it won't be an L and it won't be f5.6.

Awww, c'mon. People on this forum are asking so nicely, I'm sure Canon will answer with a 200-600/5.6L IS for under $1,000. Gotta compete with Tamron/Sigma. ;)

They will do it.... and it will be a DO lens with a BR element....
 
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Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
privatebydesign said:
As I said, if Canon choose to make a tele zoom to compete at the price point of the Tamron and Sigma 150-600's, it won't be an L and it won't be f5.6.

Awww, c'mon. People on this forum are asking so nicely, I'm sure Canon will answer with a 200-600/5.6L IS for under $1,000. Gotta compete with Tamron/Sigma. ;)

They will do it.... and it will be a DO lens with a BR element....

If they don't, all the birders will buy Sony MILCs with Tamron/Sigma lenses and Canon will be doomed...
 
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neuroanatomist said:
Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
privatebydesign said:
As I said, if Canon choose to make a tele zoom to compete at the price point of the Tamron and Sigma 150-600's, it won't be an L and it won't be f5.6.

Awww, c'mon. People on this forum are asking so nicely, I'm sure Canon will answer with a 200-600/5.6L IS for under $1,000. Gotta compete with Tamron/Sigma. ;)

They will do it.... and it will be a DO lens with a BR element....

If they don't, all the birders will buy Sony MILCs with Tamron/Sigma lenses and Canon will be doomed...
and frame-grab from their 8K video at 120FPS...
 
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neuroanatomist said:
Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
privatebydesign said:
As I said, if Canon choose to make a tele zoom to compete at the price point of the Tamron and Sigma 150-600's, it won't be an L and it won't be f5.6.

Awww, c'mon. People on this forum are asking so nicely, I'm sure Canon will answer with a 200-600/5.6L IS for under $1,000. Gotta compete with Tamron/Sigma. ;)

They will do it.... and it will be a DO lens with a BR element....

If they don't, all the birders will buy Sony MILCs with Tamron/Sigma lenses and Canon will be doomed...

It's already happening. My best friend's aunt's cousin's step mother's son's wife's friend knows a guy who saw a guy at a park with a Sony A7R II birding. It's coming! I can feel it!
 
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bdunbar79 said:
neuroanatomist said:
Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
privatebydesign said:
As I said, if Canon choose to make a tele zoom to compete at the price point of the Tamron and Sigma 150-600's, it won't be an L and it won't be f5.6.

Awww, c'mon. People on this forum are asking so nicely, I'm sure Canon will answer with a 200-600/5.6L IS for under $1,000. Gotta compete with Tamron/Sigma. ;)

They will do it.... and it will be a DO lens with a BR element....

If they don't, all the birders will buy Sony MILCs with Tamron/Sigma lenses and Canon will be doomed...

It's already happening. My best friend's aunt's cousin's step mother's son's wife's friend knows a guy who saw a guy at a park with a Sony A7R II birding. It's coming! I can feel it!

Well, I ran across some suitable subjects on a pre-Christmas outing...

resource-33368ba8-3c35-40e1-bc8f-097f01ea54a4.jpg.w960.jpg
 
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The 85mm 1.2 v3 will have way less CA and a faster motor AF haha, the 85mm 1.2 v2 is still wicked.


Lets see that patent for the Focusing screen become a reality that will really help low light shooting. Electronic view finder and max 32MP yes anti flicker is the norm now in high end bodies, gps, nfc wifi with the eyefi card or built in the body flip that coin, looks like these will be the bodies people should of waited for 8).
 
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neuroanatomist said:
Don Haines said:
AvTvM said:
As every year, Canon will not bring anything that excites me:

Canon never makes gear that excites me....

It's just solid, reliable, no surprises, keeps on doing a good job...... no excitement at all....

Oil-splattered sensors, lossy compression or unnecessarily bloated files, >30-day service turnaround if something breaks – now, that's excitement!

You forgot to mention the the problem Nikon has with its IS interacting with the shutter. For example, their 300mm f/4E PF is more blurred on an 810 at 1/30 - 1/320 s with the IS on than off, and the problem hasn't been cured by the recall.
 
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AshtonNekolah said:
The 85mm 1.2 v3 will have way less CA and a faster motor AF haha, the 85mm 1.2 v2 is still wicked.


Lets see that patent for the Focusing screen become a reality that will really help low light shooting. Electronic view finder and max 32MP yes anti flicker is the norm now in high end bodies, gps, nfc wifi with the eyefi card or built in the body flip that coin, looks like these will be the bodies people should of waited for 8).

I so want to get the 85mm 1.2, and I tried one out at a b&m retailer the other day, but the focussing was so slow that it would be useless to me to use at events, so I'll wait for V3.
 
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I was considering trying a Nikon with the 300mm f/4E PF for lightness and the 200-500mm for extra range, and read all the reviews, trawled the forums and handled the lens. That is when I came across the complaints about the IS problems. The 200-500mm is heavy, at 2.3 kg. It is reported to be only fair for AF speed, and it needs to be stopped down to f/8 or f/11 for optimal sharpness on FF.
 
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Private, Neuro, BDunbar and Don, When you resort to childish sarcasm, you've already lost.

You may be correct, Canon may not choose to make a 200-600 f5.6 zoom, slap a red ring on it and sell it for $3,000. But, that certainly does not mean they are incapable of doing that.

I'm on record expressing significant skepticism as to whether this lens will ever materialize. Craig has put it near the top of his list of expected products for 2016. So, it's fair to discuss where we think this product might fall if they do proceed.

If they do make such a lens, I stand by my predictions:

1) It will be more expensive than the Sigma 150-600 Sports zoom, which retails for about $2,000. How much more expensive, I don't know. I don't believe it is inconceivable that such a lens could be made and sold for $3,000, if Canon chooses to do so.

2) Canon knows that they can paint a red ring on anything and it will have a greater perceived value among consumers, justified or not. Therefore, to justify a premium over the competition, they need to put that red ring on it. (bearing in mind that the "luxury" designation is simply a marketing tool and signifies nothing.)

3) I do not believe Canon will make a lens that does not autofocus with the majority of its DSLRs. I also believe they will not resort to "fooling" their own autofocus systems into thinking an f6.3 is an f5.6. By the process of elimination, that means an f5.6. I seriously doubt that the size of the front element is a major worry for Canon engineers. It's just glass, not gold or diamonds. I admit I could be wrong about this and Canon could indeed make it an f6.3, I would just be surprised by that and I'm open to any rational argument that it could indeed be an f6.3 lens.

It is certainly possible that this could be one more $6,000-$12,000 piece of glass. If that's the case, it becomes irrelevant to me and, frankly to the vast majority of birders and hobbyists.

However, I think an argument can certainly be made that Canon may want to compete against the third parties that are offering 150-600 mm zooms, especially since the quality of those lenses has been quite impressive. One of the other commenters that you made fun of, did make a very valid point, which might need to be better articulated. If you are mainly or exclusively interested in photographing birds, it's entirely reasonable that you might let your lens choices determine what camera body you want to buy -- after all the camera can be a smaller investment and easier to change if you are only going to pair it with one lens.

That's a point that had not occurred to me and would certainly be a reason why Canon may choose to compete in the 500-600mm zoom range. An avid birder could well look at Nikon's 500mm zoom and conclude that they could buy a camera and the lens for less than the price of the new 100-400mm zoom. The old 100-400 zoom has been the standard for birders for years. It's not uncommon for me to see four or five other birders with the lens at the same location. In these challenging times, I doubt if Canon wants to lose that customer base to Nikon.

Ultimately, the only way we will know who has guessed correctly is to just wait and see. Honestly, I'm comfortable with that because I'm not the one on this forum who is making sarcastic comments instead of discussing things in a mature and intelligent fashion.
 
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unfocused said:
Private, Neuro, BDunbar and Don, When you resort to childish sarcasm, you've already lost.

Not all of it's childish sarcasm, some of it is adult sarcasm, aimed at people who repeatedly act as if to speak for the entire universe of bird photographers.

I will continue to repeat my question to the Canon bashers: if Sony/Nikon etc are so much better in all ways than Canon offerings, why have they not pulled market share from Canon? Apparently, Canon offers some aggregate of benefit to photographers that has kept a leading share of the market. Why is that? (I intend that as a sincere question.)

If Canon makes the 200-600L as described, and if it matches the quality of the 100-400II for a reasonable price, I will start saving my pennies.
 
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