The Canon EOS R3 will eliminate “Lag” and “Blackout” for stills shooters

Highly unlikely. Why have two pro body low mp bodies? There would not be enough difference in market segmentation between the two - they would be competing against each other.

This would leave the Nikon Z9 as the only high mp pro body camera. Doesn’t sound like a winning strategy.
I think the EOSR3 is not going to be a new series of camera, I think is a one off like the EOS R to test out a pro-body mirrorless, the new sensor , eye controlled auto focus and to buy sometime for next generation of CPU and resolve any remaining heat management issues so that they can move to 2 CF express cards. The R1 will eventually be the only Pro sports body. I think the eventual line up will be R1, R5, R5 high MP variant, R6, R7 (ASPC camera replacing 7D/90D) an RC ( low cost compact full frame camera replacing RP) and an R100 ( entry level ASPC Camera). Basically a 7 camera line up covering all price points from about $500 to $7000.
 
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I think the EOSR3 is not going to be a new series of camera, I think is a one off like the EOS R to test out a pro-body mirrorless, the new sensor , eye controlled auto focus and to buy sometime for next generation of CPU and resolve any remaining heat management issues so that they can move to 2 CF express cards. The R1 will eventually be the only Pro sports body. I think the eventual line up will be R1, R5, R5 high MP variant, R6, R7 (ASPC camera replacing 7D/90D) an RC ( low cost compact full frame camera replacing RP) and an R100 ( entry level ASPC Camera). Basically a 7 camera line up covering all price points from about $500 to $7000.
I believe the R3 will be the sports shooter pro camera, and the R1 will be a high mp pro body studio camera to compete with Z9. Can't see the R3 as being a one off interim camera.

And I don't see Canon not competing against the high mp Nikon Z9.
 
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I believe the R3 will be the sports shooter pro camera, and the R1 will be a high mp pro body studio camera to compete with Z9. Can't see the R3 as being a one off interim camera.

And I don't see Canon not competing against the high mp Nikon Z9.
I agree and have been saying the same. I think Canon will very carefully monitor the sales of the R3 and then R1 to see how they are being used. If the traditional 1 series users do buy into the R1 high mp then the R3 might be a series of one! If, as I think they expect, the current ‘sports shooter’ 1 series buyers happily stick with the comparatively low mp count of the R3 then I’d expect there to be an R3 II.
 
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I think the EOSR3 is not going to be a new series of camera, I think is a one off like the EOS R to test out a pro-body mirrorless, the new sensor , eye controlled auto focus and to buy sometime for next generation of CPU and resolve any remaining heat management issues so that they can move to 2 CF express cards. The R1 will eventually be the only Pro sports body. I think the eventual line up will be R1, R5, R5 high MP variant, R6, R7 (ASPC camera replacing 7D/90D) an RC ( low cost compact full frame camera replacing RP) and an R100 ( entry level ASPC Camera). Basically a 7 camera line up covering all price points from about $500 to $7000.
That makes sense, except I remain unconvinced that we'll see an R7. I do think it's very possible that the R3 is a one-off and we'll never see a MkII version. The EOS 3 (film) was the first camera to use the 45-point AF system that then moved to the 1-series (1v film, then all of the 1D and 1Ds bodies, although it was improved with more cross-type points over time).

If the R1 is announced (even as a development announcement) in a year or less, then the R3 may represent a return to the 1D / 1Ds split (undoing Canon's previous merger of the two into the 1D X). Not sure that's going to happen.
 
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I believe the R3 will be the sports shooter pro camera, and the R1 will be a high mp pro body studio camera to compete with Z9. Can't see the R3 as being a one off interim camera.

And I don't see Canon not competing against the high mp Nikon Z9.
We are definitely in for a few interesting years as the big 3 figure out what their mirrorless line up should be and against which models they are really competing and how their lens development roadmap plays into that. One thing that is certain is that we could be in for expensive few years!!
 
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I believe the R3 will be the sports shooter pro camera, and the R1 will be a high mp pro body studio camera to compete with Z9. Can't see the R3 as being a one off interim camera.

And I don't see Canon not competing against the high mp Nikon Z9.
why would anyone need a high mp pro body for the studio. Studio is the safest and most controlled environment. You don't need a big fast camera for portraits. Sounds like you are talking about a R5S if one would ever come to exist.
 
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I don't understand why Canon would put an SD card slot in a camera like the R3. It would make more sense to provide two Cfexpress slots and anyone who can afford the camera will certainly be able to afford the more expensive type of memory cards...........
It's going to be interesting to see what happens.... And potentially really hard on my credit cards!

I am just taking a stab in the dark here, but there a huge number of news photogs who use apple SD card readers to upload to the phone while working. The 1dX required an adapter card holder using the SD in the CF slot. But the advantage is you can keep shooting or running video with this work flow. Pop the card out, stuff a new card in, work and keep your camera at the ready 100% of the time vs being "off line" while using wifi etc

I do not know if that had anything to do with Canon's logic.
Once Apple made the old Eye Fi card redundant by making a cheap SD card reader, everyone I know is set up for this work flow. It works!
Maybe not the sexiest thing on the face of the earth, but very reliable with no camera down time.
 
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If the R1 is announced (even as a development announcement) in a year or less, then the R3 may represent a return to the 1D / 1Ds split (undoing Canon's previous merger of the two into the 1D X). Not sure that's going to happen.

I was in a camera shop in Vancouver many years ago when the manager told me (based on discussions with a Canon rep) the rationalisation of the 1D/1Ds/5D differentiation and, lo, it came to pass a few months later. His explanation then was not so much that they had a high/low 1D pixel densities but more that at the pro level they had two different sensor formats running in parallel which not only meant developing different softwares (such as impact on AF systems) but also screwed around with practicalities focal length equivalents. Merging them to a single 1D line simplified this.

As I understand it, the reason they had the two formats was because it is pixel density that gives the reach and at that time, making higher density sensors was so much more expensive so the smaller APS-H enabled them to mitigate production costs to make them affordable. Nowadays sensor production is so much more efficient and has closed that gap.
The outcome IMO is that it is now possible to return to the dual-1D product lines both using 35mm format, much like they had the very successful 5D/5Ds pairing.
 
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why would anyone need a high mp pro body for the studio. Studio is the safest and most controlled environment. You don't need a big fast camera for portraits. Sounds like you are talking about a R5S if one would ever come to exist.
Canon certainly doesn't need two low mp pro body cameras. So unless Canon plans to replace the R3 with an R1, I expect the R1 to be high mp. Canon likely won't use an R5 body to compete with the high mp pro body Nikon Z9.
 
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I agree and have been saying the same. I think Canon will very carefully monitor the sales of the R3 and then R1 to see how they are being used. If the traditional 1 series users do buy into the R1 high mp then the R3 might be a series of one! If, as I think they expect, the current ‘sports shooter’ 1 series buyers happily stick with the comparatively low mp count of the R3 then I’d expect there to be an R3 II.
Sales will be the key - not debate, not what forum users think. Everyone seems to think that Canon must compete with the Z9 ...well, what if those shooters who are in that target market for a Z9 or Canon 1 series camera prefer lower MPs? If those sports/action shooters prefer the lower MP R3, then the R1 might just replace the R3 will similar MP count. And if the target market for a higher MP camera would much rather prefer a body like the R5, then an even higher MP R5 style camera might be what "competes" with the Z9. I don't think Canon will feel the need to compete directly with the Z9 if the sales and market research show that those particular specs (high MP, pro-build) will be poor sellers. On the other hand, of course, if the market says, "yes give me higher MPs in your 1 series camera," then Canon will not ignore that.

For now, all sorts of possibilities are on the table and will be for a few years until sales tell the story of what stays and what goes..
 
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As I understand it, the reason they had the two formats was because it is pixel density that gives the reach and at that time, making higher density sensors was so much more expensive so the smaller APS-H enabled them to mitigate production costs to make them affordable. Nowadays sensor production is so much more efficient and has closed that gap.

The 1DX and R3 still haven't matched the pixel density of the last APS-H.

The use of smaller sensors was actually because they provided better yields out of wafers. If the number of bad zones was consistent across wafers but randomly distributed on each, they could get more 'all good' APS-H circuits off a wafer than full-frame. And thus they could afford to push the density higher because they were getting more good circuits.
 
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why would anyone need a high mp pro body for the studio. Studio is the safest and most controlled environment. You don't need a big fast camera for portraits. Sounds like you are talking about a R5S if one would ever come to exist.

"Studio" doesn't just mean literal photo studio. I bought a 1Ds3 years ago from a fashion photographer, classic studio-style shots but done at events like fashion shows. Heavily worn body, banging around being used for hours each day, over a million shots taken. That's a pro body in non-sports use.

The 5D series took much of the market for actual on-tripod studio use but was nowhere near robust enough for that sort of use.
 
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Here's a bit of insight into the battery life on the R3

This photographer(Damir Senčar) who was given an R3 from Canon to use at the Olympics, posted a pic of the shutter count. QUOTE: 16379 photos with one battery on Canon EOS R3

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I’m afraid it does. Nowhere near that when it’s on. But the R5 does have drain when asleep and even when it’s turned off.

Turn the camera off and look at the top screen, you will see that the current mode still shows (Av, Tv, M etc). Power is required to make that happen.

The manual even says that if you are leaving the camera off for an extended period you should remove the battery. I know that during lockdown by R5 flattened it’s battery just sitting turned off.

Try it yourself. Note the battery %, and turn the camera off for a few weeks.

You beat me to the reply. On top of what you already said with the R5, to show it's not really off...

Turn on Bluetooth & WiFi in menu and then turn off the camera. Battery life while on shelf will greatly be reduced (Tip: I always keep in airplane mode when not actively using either).

Or... remove your memory cards while the camera is off and put them back in... watch the LED blink as it is re-initialized.

The 'off' switch on the R5 is essentially a sleep mode... it isn't off unless the battery is removed.
 
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Terrific set of images, Ron!

This has been my experience with the R5, as well. In H+ mechanical and ES, I have had no issues whatsoever tracking and keeping up with birds, even when they’re flying against busy backgrounds and strong backlighting.

I am sure the R3 will be better. However, the R5 still performs extremely well!
Love the Yellow-headed blackbird for sure! Yep, the R5 is very capable for even the fastest action. Agree, the R3 will be better, but then it should be given the tech advances and only being 24mp. I am interested to see how images from the two camera compare.
 
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But if you are down below a certain limit, there is not human discernable difference (around 20msec latency as I recall) And that's what we should be looking at: When is it "good enough" that we cannot perceive the lag.

The ballpark varies depending on a person's age (though doesn't vary much between early teens and middle age) and, of course, what they're used to and small variations in every person's eyes and brain. A small minority of people genuinely can't spot or feel 50ms-ish of delay, for instance. The vast majority of people can spot down to about 16ms. Some people can spot down to around 8ms, though testing that is highly debated and 10ms is a commonly-agreed compromise. People used to seeing displays and video content at high refresh rates and frame rates are more tuned to spotting this kind of lag than someone who never looks at a screen; if you've spent half your life picking apart frames at 60Hz (16ms) and now you've spent the last few years picking out frames at 120Hz (8ms) or more, you're going to be able to spot when a device is operating 50ms behind. So your tech bros, your gamers, and your professionals will, mostly (of course there will always be exceptions, and no, naming one person does not disprove or prove anything) see and/or feel even the minimum lag that a mirrorless system is capable of.
So yes, if a camera can be made that brings lag down right to the absolute bare physical minimum time it takes for light to simply travel, be converted and the shuter to go off, then yeah, that kind of time should be "good enough" for us to not perceive lag unless we were specifically looking for it. But, realistically, there are no displays (for viewfinders or otherwise) that can meet that speed, no CPUs that can meet it, and simply too much going on inside a camera for that kind of speed to be reached. Even then, it still would technically not be eliminating lag.

I'm not saying we can't get a camera to be fast enough for practical use, just that the phrase "eliminate lag" is making an extremely inaccurate claim.

Imaging-resource.com measures shutter lag.

And they do so terribly inaccurately, as you'll find if you search around as many people have torn down their process. They don't include any of the wider system lag, either mechanical and software, let alone display lag.
For an example of how inaccurate their speeds are, go check Canon's own literature on the 1D X and R's lag; even Canon's own marketing doesn't claim speeds that fast.

Here's a bit of insight into the battery life on the R3

This photographer(Damir Senčar) who was given an R3 from Canon to use at the Olympics, posted a pic of the shutter count. QUOTE: 16379 photos with one battery on Canon EOS R3

Number of shots taken is an erroneous, disingenuous, and highly unrealistic way of measuring battery life. If you put one of these 20fps or 30fps cameras on a steady surface, set it to medium jpg with a gigantic card, and just hold down the shutter, you can ''shoot'' tens of thousands of images in just 10-15 minutes. The battery will still be at 80% and that makes the camera sound like it'll last forever. A sports pro shooting 16k in one go is not remarkable in the slightest. If it's shooting at a locked 30fps he could've done that in just over 9 minutes.
This is why the CIPA ratings are always much lower. Though they still count the number of shots taken, which isn't actually helpful, at least they factor in leaving the camera to idle, reviewing images, navigating menus, etc.

A more helpful measurement of battery life would be the actual hours the camera lasts turned on, without going to sleep or turning off key functions. I don't care if a camera can shoot a billion photos in one go at a high burst rate; I care if I have to keep turning the camera fully off for it to last until the next event. A 1D or 7D can be turned on in the morning and not turn off, or even go to sleep, for the entire day, and only the 7D will need its battery changing. The R and R5, for me so far, need the battery changing at least every hour and a half, no matter whether I've taken 200 shots or 2000.

I'm not saying the R3 will have a poor battery per se, just that quoting a large number of shots, for any camera, is not helpful.
 
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This may be a dumb noob question. But here it goes.
Does the lag affect AF tracking, or does it affect the viewfinder only? In other words, does the lag result from processing the input from the sensor, before it does AF calculations and EVF display? Or is the lag a result of slow EVF response?
 
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I don't think 45MP is especially high resolution. Now 90MP would probably get people's attention. Recall that Keith Cooper uses a 5Ds and, after testing an R5, decided to keep using it. I believe he is typical of people who crave extremely high resolution cameras. When the 5D2 was introduced, 15 months after the 1Ds3, my local camera store had two 1Ds3 bodies in stock. In the year following, they sold a bunch of 5D2 bodies but couldn't sell either 1Ds3 body. I think they finally sold those bodies on ebay.
 
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