The Canon EOS R5 Mark II – We have now seen it

[arbitrage]

The a1 is pretty much an overpriced Z 8 at this point.
The rumored R5 II specs are better in every way.

Having owned R5, Z8, Z9 and A1. I will disagree with that.
But we are all entitled to our opinions. Hopefully yours, like mine, are actually based on your own experience with the cameras you are discussing.
If so, then I'm happy to agree to disagree. If not, then your opinion is meaningless.

 

[arbitrage]

What are you going on about? I'm usually patient with people's opinions in here, but this is rediculous.

In what purple skied world is the $6500 camera body a direct competitor with a $4000 one and why would the $4000 need to feature match, when it's literally $2500 cheaper? I would hope for Sony's sake that the A1 II or whatever will be better than the R5. It would have to be to make up for their trashy ergonomics.

Should you be on twitter/x - because that seems like more the place for a post like this?

Trashy ergonomics? What are we talking about here? The A1 generation body and even more so the A9III generation body have ergonomics on par with an R5 but with a significantly better control layout. I will say the R3 is the best camera I've ever held and I'd love Sony internals with Sony button layout on an R3 shell. But if we are comparing to the current R5 and assume the R5II will be very similar, then I don't think the ergonomics of an A1 are trashy in comparison. I've owned them all and can only speak from experience related to my own hand size but the control layout on Sony is a cut above the rest. If we solely are comparing the size/shape of the grip and height of the camera then I'd rank A9III/gripped>A1/gripped>Z8>R5/gripped>R5>A1>Z8/gripped but as an overall package to allow maximum control without menu use, the A1 and A9III are the winners. Sony doesn't deserve to give anyone a discount because of ergos anymore.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Having owned R5, Z8, Z9 and A1. I will disagree with that.
But we are all entitled to our opinions. Hopefully yours, like mine, are actually based on your own experience with the cameras you are discussing.
If so, then I'm happy to agree to disagree. If not, then your opinion is meaningless.

The R5 II is just specs at this point.
I do have experience with the cameras.
However, I do not know you and you are kind of rude so your opinion is meaningless.
Have a nice day.

 

[arbitrage]

Neither the A1ii nor the R5ii are on the market so no-one knows how they compare or why someone would buy one over the other. However, the R5 and A1 weren’t really targeting the same market given by the price difference between the bodies. I don’t suspect either camera’s successors will change their respective strategies to compete directly, so one reason to pick the R5ii would likely end up being your previous investment in canon glass in addition to a body which may be 30% cheaper. Whether that’s meaningful to your needs or not is a different story. For me, the improvements of the a1 over the R5, combined with the need to cycle all my lenses, and pay a ~30% additional premium wouldn’t make any sense if the R5ii and A1ii follow their predecessors market segmentation. I need absolutely no speed increase, no auto focus improvements, no ibis improvements, no video improvements, but I care a lot about image quality, weather sealing, usability, and certainly the needed investment for those improvements. I definitely don’t need my R5ii to be an R1 price point. But again, everyone’s needs are different, so you mileage may vary!

They seemed to be targeting the same market to me. All my friends who shoot birds with Canon use an R5, all my friends that shoot birds with Sony shoot A1 and now my friends who shoot Nikon have either Z8 or Z9 but most are trending to Z8 now that it is out.

 

[arbitrage]

The R5 II is just specs at this point.
I do have experience with the cameras.
However, I do not know you and you are kind of rude so your opinion is meaningless.
Have a nice day.

You can at least see a link to my Flickr below my profile if you want to see shots with all the cameras I'm discussing. Can you provide me a link to whichever website you post your work to? Would love to get a better idea of who I'm conversing with. Given your username it looks like you are unbiased....

 

[arbitrage]

So far only a9/a9ii is the one that unable to shoot 14bit in uncompressed RAW. It's a safe bet R5ii will do 14bit, regardless of burst modes.

LOL

As an ex-A1 user, it's meaningless to compare a1 and R5. Yes you have a "superior" spec on paper, but the image quality difference is little. spending $2000 more just to feel "better"?

I'm right in another post. Sony-fans are full of people with superiority-complex issue.

Even back in 2020/2021 R5 is selling much more than A1 because the MSRP is lower in the first place.

A1 is pretty beaten by the cheaper Z8 with flash sync as exception. R5ii is better than a1 is for sure.

50MP with 60fps? I'm pretty sure you have to build $10000+ PCs/Macs to work with it, it'll be a nightmare for normal human beings but heaven for Sony fanbois.


I'm with you. A1 is overrated as the hidden caveats aren't exposed enough as $ony paid enough to keep major YouTubers (hello Gerald) silent.

I'd agree, IQ difference is meaningless between them. I'd still prefer the R5 if forced to choose a winner.
There are certain features in all the cameras R5, Z8, A1 that are better than the others. None of them have a 100% lead over the others. One must decide for themselves which features/specs are most important for their own type of photography.
I've owned Z9 twice, Z8, R5 and A1. I shoot mostly BIF with some bird portraits if the birds aren't flying. For myself, I prioritize AF and control of the camera over all other features. The Z8/Z9 don't hold a candle to R5 and A1 for controls. The controls of the A1 including the button placement, number of buttons and amount of customization allowed for each button is top of the pack followed by the R5 and leaving the two Nikons way behind.
The Z8/Z9 EVF is terrible for exposure evaluation and yet the Z8/Z9 EVF is the best during actual firing during a BIF pan. The R5 EVF is beautiful for color rendition, resolution and yet poor for BIF/panning because of the slideshow coming off the non-stacked sensor. The A1 EVF is okay, great for panning just a little behind the dual-stream off the Z9/Z8. Sony live zebras in stills makes exposure evaluation the easiest but the overall image of the EVF is not as good as the R5/R3.
Then we have the AF for BIF. The A1 still bests the others by a good amount. Better at acquiring and holding at distance and against complicated backgrounds. Also better at holding AF as a subject transitions from clean to complicated backgrounds. And yet if we are looking at BEAF for non-BIF, the R5 is still the winner. A1/Z8/Z9 are on par. A9III has almost caught up to R5 but I'd still give the edge to R5/R3.
So you can see why after owning them all, I've settled on the A1 for now because it ticks the winning box for the two features most important to me.
This certainly won't tick the winning box for many others. The right camera is an individual decision, which is why I always buy them and try them myself because if I relied on the fanboys on forums or the YT shills, I'd have no idea what was true.

 

[koenkooi]

I would think that would have more to do with power requirements than cooling requirements, see R5 C.

The digic X in my R8 can record the same duration of oversampled 4k60 as my R5 could record oversampled 4k30 on a single charge. The R8 battery is half the capacity of the R5 one, so I expect the R5II to handle the bits they the R5C struggles with, with ease.

 

[scyrene]

You don't "have" to do it that way. Some guys did OK with one frame every couple of minutes shooting slow slide film with a flash in the rafters that took minutes to recharge. They just had to be able to time the first shot perfectly.

View attachment 217061

And just so you don't think Ali held that pose for several seconds, look at the video. He swung his arm from down at his right side to his left shoulder and back down to his right side in less than half a second, total movement. His right hand was at his left shoulder for a sheer fraction of a second.

But presumably it was only occasionally successful, which is one reason that shot became so well known (obviously the composition and subject matter are probably much more important)? We wouldn't know about all the failed ones, like we don't see all the shots people delete now.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Okay, so in the sony camp if you want the same performance of the R5 Mark II, you'll have to shell out $6500 and get the A1 or A1 II (which may or may not be better than the R5 II).

and w hile the A1 may see a price drop it probably won't see a 2500 price drop.

No no no. You’re missing the point completely. The point is that a new $4000 camera will probably be competitive with a 3 year-old camera that costs $2500 more. If you can’t see how that means Canon is Doomed™, I’m not sure there’s any hope for you.

 

[JonasGillmann]

you do know I'm not Craig, yes?

He doesn't tell me everything, and even if he did - I can't share it.

I admittedly don't know much about who is behind what so I thought it was you in X (Twitter) or that the two of you would at least have the exact same knowledge base. I didn't know that there were things the two of you don't share among each other.

 

[Deleted member 396222]

In honor of almost two years of exhaustive endless reading Canon R5ii rumors, 18 years as a Canon customer, I have now been using my Z8 for a week... happy as can be... taking breathtaking photographs (with my Canon lenses), yes a learning curve that is fun and challenging... not looking back... Should have moved on in 2023. Best to all!

 

[bbasiaga]

You don't "have" to do it that way. Some guys did OK with one frame every couple of minutes shooting slow slide film with a flash in the rafters that took minutes to recharge. They just had to be able to time the first shot perfectly.

View attachment 217061

And just so you don't think Ali held that pose for several seconds, look at the video. He swung his arm from down at his right side to his left shoulder and back down to his right side in less than half a second, total movement. His right hand was at his left shoulder for a sheer fraction of a second.

And i'm sure all of them would be appreciative of the technology that helps reduce the luck factor. Even with 20fps and a huge memory card, you really have to be paying attention so skill, of course, is still a part of the requirement regardless,

 

[Ozarker]

About 4 years ago this site had a patent for a sensor that would be able to do 1) global shutter (no rolling shutter artifact), 2) single-exposure HDR (about double the dynamic range), and 3) electronic ND. I think that sensor will revolutionize shooting for a lot of people.

It basically had two charge buckets per sensor pixel and could switch the entire sensor between them instantly. So to get the equivalent of 10 stops ND, you just use bucket 1 for 999ns, then bucket 2 for 1ns, and so on. Bucket 2 has your dark image. To get HDR, you use both images: you could expose a room at night and easily make out the maker's logo on the lightbulbs. Or shoot an interior during the day and have both the room and the outside view perfectly exposed. For global shutter you get the photo in bucket 1, then switch to bucket 2, and read out bucket 1 which is no longer getting new photons.

Thank you for your explanation of how those "buckets" work. I'll bet the real estate photographers will love this.

 

[Ozarker]

In honor of almost two years of reading Canon R5ii rumors, 18 years as a Canon customer, I have now been using my Z8 for a week... happy as can be... taking breathtaking photographs...yes a learning curve that is fun and challenging... not looking back... Should have moved on in 2023. Best to all!

Bye, Felicia.

 

[Tony5787]

Okay, so in the sony camp if you want the same performance of the R5 Mark II, you'll have to shell out $6500 and get the A1 or A1 II (which may or may not be better than the R5 II).

and w hile the A1 may see a price drop it probably won't see a 2500 price drop.

Yeah I mean I think my frustration ultimately comes down to the R1 most likely not seeing a resolution bump and now it’s like the R5 Mark II has to fill that void when it’s not a flagship. The R1 is the camera I’m really looking for and what *should* be the answer to those other bodies but if it’s 24MP it’s going to be a hard sell for me. We’ll see though, if the AF is good enough and it can track reliably at close range then that could make up for the relatively low resolution. I definitely would like to stick with Canon, the overall experience shooting with their bodies is the best of the bunch IMO.

 

[Ozarker]

I consider this like the usual NDA/embargo on things, it's not so much about the dollar amount of damages mentioned in the NDA, it's about never getting pre-access again. Canon rumours is likely a lot more informal, but the goal is to keep sources sourcing, not burn them on a single story

Talking about NDAs, my USA coworkers pointed out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_performance to me a while back. Not all NDAs use fines as a stick, it can be as crude as 'feed all your data carriers into a shredder' if you decided to 'backup' things from your former employer.

"the goal is to keep sources sourcing, not burn them on a single story"
Exactly. Unfortunately, people have turned to conspiracy theories as entertainment these days.

 

[Ozarker]

Why? Does it seem likely that many users will switch systems? Forum participants don't represent the real world...people here seem to believe that Canon must entice Sony users to buy Canon cameras or Canon users to not buy Sony cameras. The reality is more likely that Canon needs to entice Canon users to buy new Canon cameras instead of just hanging on to the Canon cameras they have.

The strategy of a market leader is typically not the same as a market follower trying to make gains.

Well, I guess some people think everyone with a camera and lens system investment in the tens of thousands of dollars can just switch in anger over a body price difference. Yeah, that'll show'em.

Somehow, I think, the number of people who could actually carry out such a threat is puny. Yet, they come around at every release.

 

[Ozarker]

With what lenses though? The Sony 14mm f/1.8 GM is optically superb while being impressively compact and light. I will get the R5 II but I'll also have to carry around a Sony body SOLELY FOR THIS Sony 14mm f/1.8 GM lens.
There was once a rumor about a Canon RF 14mm f/1.4 but we haven't heard anything about it ever since. WHY CANON?! Also, while I love Canon bodies the RF 15-35 f/2.8 is just so heavy and big compared to the optically similarly great but way more compact Sony 16-35 GM II.

I'd love to see an updated more compact RF 15-35 f/2.8 and most importantly a competitor to the magnificent Sony 14mm f/1.8 GM!

Serious question: I'm not an astro photographer. I understand wide angle for Milky Way shots, or Aurora Borealis. Other than that, I can't think of another. Are the wide angle lenses attached to a telescope sometimes? I guess I've assumed that's for a zoom, but now I'm guessing wide angle might be used that way also?

I guess if the optics in the telescope aren't as good as the camera lens, then it doesn't matter whose lens is used.

 

[Ozarker]

...any of whom take thousands of images during an event, but never 'spray and pray'. Its about isolating that one fleeting moment. And to do that you have to anticipate, start firing a burst, and hope you get the 'perfect' frame.

Brian

I dunno, Brian. That sounds exactly like MY spray and pray routine. The "hope" part is the praying. I like to spray my hope with FPS for better crop yields.

As I say this I'm holding my blazing fast R. Yeah, just R.

 

[Richard CN]

In honor of almost two years of reading Canon R5ii rumors, 18 years as a Canon customer, I have now been using my Z8 for a week... happy as can be... taking breathtaking photographs...yes a learning curve that is fun and challenging... not looking back... Should have moved on in 2023. Best to all!

Z8 is a great camera.

We'll still respect you, it's not as you went to Sony.