The Canon EOS R5 Mark II will not function with third-party batteries

[neuroanatomist]

R5 reviewers – Canon sucks because they’re hobbling the camera by reducing the frame rate as the battery discharges.

R5II reviewers – Canon sucks because they’re making me buy new batteries to overcome the prior limitation that I complained about.

Granted, it sucks that the new batteries are in short supply. That was true for the LP-E19 when I bought the R3, but at least I was able to order one after the announcement but before the R3 shipped, since the 1-series already used that battery.

 

[amattas]

I ordered the R5II, may get the camera in time but the battery is in short supply. So you buy the camera and once the package battery runs out juice, you use this existing ones and find out that some of the functions don\'t work. Great job Canon. Also the E6NH battery seems to have the same capacity,, why limit this one?

My working theory is they didn't plan ahead with the E6NH or even the E6N. They all use the same CR18500 cell, the battery management controller just isn't allowing those batteries to put out their full continuous discharge.

Maybe there was a logical region, such as reducing heat, or not wanting to manage the higher battery output in the camera itself to save money.

Fundamentally, the only thing that is different between these two batteries is the BMC

 

[amattas]

Yes they will adjust the amperage. Same as for batteries for every other electronic device. No electronic device uses the same battery for over 25 years after they have changed versions.

But this is the same 25 year old battery technology, it just has a different BMC allowing to take better advantage of the cells that have been in these batteries since at least the E6N.

 

[David - Sydney]

I get the backward compatibility niceties of the LP-E6 form factor but it isn't the best design IMHO.

Using CR18650 batteries (15mm longer but still 18mm diameter) would give a huge increase in capacity. Currently (pun intended) the circuitry of the Canon battery is on the end of the batteries but if it could be on the side/between the batteries (like the NP-FZ100) with electrical contacts there) then it would improve a lot of the current constraints.

maybe I should work for Canon

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Very much my own thoughts for my own usage. The one that does intrigue me is the AF advantage of the R5ii. The AF of the R5 is just so good I must compare how much better the R5ii is. The R5ii is a super upgrade for the remaining 5D users (and @neuroanatomist points out that they are the prime targets) but the case for current R5 users depends on their specific needs.

Yes, I think it also proves that Canon got so much right with the R5. It truely is / was a land mark camera. It's probably the most versatile camera ever made, regardless of brand.

The Canon Eos 5D series were extreamly popular cameras, especially the 5DIII. Many photographer felt that this was the last upgrade for a very long while. It was the maturest of digital SLR's that had finally arrived. The R5 is far superior in almost every regard...however, the 5DIII/IV scratch a near perfect itch for so many. For many photographers, If it's working so well for so many..why change? I certainly felt that way until I tried an R8 and realised what I was missing.

The R5ii's AF improvements have all been "raved" about by a handfull of noisy youtube influencers at a specific sports event and the new AF code certainly serves that purpose well. The new action mode sounds amazing, if it moves, find it and lock onto it. However the AF code only works on three specific types of ball sports. It's absolutely not viable for tracking birds or wild life....yet. As usual, Canon are drip feeding a good idea. An action mode tailored to birding / wildlife would be revolutionary. I often find myself wrestling with the modern AI AF systems in controlling what it locks onto and tracks. I'm a versatile photographer who needs the AF to be great with portraits, landscapes and birds / wildlife / bugs. At the moment I think that the Canon AF system is spectacular for shooting people & portraits. Excellent for birds when the AF has selected the right subject or point of focus and very good for wild life and ok for bugs. I think this new AF system is amazing for indoor ball sports too.

Eye control is sort of useful but far from perfect (made worse by my heavy perscription glasses) and the current AI detection modes get easily fooled or confused. I would be very keen to see a new mode that is tailored for tracking a single large bird in flight where I can pan and the AI "sees" the big flying bird, ignors the background and locks on while I'm panning, quickly and efficiently....that WOULD be useful to me.

 

[PhotoDad]

Sorry they decide to go that way, this mean that it will be even more expensive to purchase this one, especially when you likely will need a battery grip and som extra batteriets.

 

[Sean C]

My working theory is they didn't plan ahead with the E6NH or even the E6N. They all use the same CR18500 cell, the battery management controller just isn't allowing those batteries to put out their full continuous discharge.

Fundamentally, the only thing that is different between these two batteries is the BMC

Batteries can have different internal resistance, which'll affect max current while maintaining voltage. We're talking long enough for precise internal battery chemistry to evolve. With each generation there will be a tradeoff between capacity, longevity and max current for a given physical cell size. The old current limit on the BMS may have been meant to protect that generation of cells from a shortened life. Maybe you could look at PANY battery specs over time to make a better guess, though I'm not sure you can count on the OEM battery cell specs being public.

 

[mrzippy68]

What are the odd that the non-Canon battery issue with the R5 MKII will also be problematic with non-Canon batteries for the new R1

 

[Canon Rumors]

Update 2: After speaking with two reputable third-party battery makers, this issue was not created purposefully by Canon, it was just a byproduct of the power delivery changes in the LP-E6P required for the new features and processors in the EOS R5 Mark II.

One of the companies says that they will have a solution in the coming weeks after more time with the new LP-E6P.

Keep in mind that all of the current third-party LP-E6 style batteries on the market today will never be fully compatible with the EOS R5 Mark II, and it's not likely that they will ever be at all unless Canon can do something nice.

What are the odd that the non-Canon battery issue with the R5 MKII will also be problematic with non-Canon batteries for the new R1

It won't be an issue, nothing has changed with the LP-E19

 

[Canon Rumors]

I do think for most R52 shooters, the LP-E6n/nh batteries would probably only ever been used in power emergencies with the reduction of features.

That's obviously painful for the people that are loaded up on them.

Again, Canon better be able to make enough of them from the start. I'm not sure how long it takes to develop a battery, but things in China seem to happen fairly quickly.

I will get advanced knowledge once things are figured out from one of the companies I have spoken with.

 

[AlanF]

To put the power output of the LP-E6P into perspective, 6A delivers 43 watts at 7.2v. My e-bike has a 36v - 250 watt motor so 6 of these cells would power me along at 15.5 mph/25 km/h for about 18 minutes at full throttle (I think this calculation is right @OskarB). The R5ii sure is a hungry beast.

 

[AlanF]

To put the the price of the LP-E6P into perspective, last week in Shanghai I saw the horde of small e-bikes/e-scooters used for regular commuting. These apparently retail at $320 for the bike with batteries (please correct me if price wrong), for the latest models that have to have higher safety standards.

 

[Canon Rumors]

To the people that know batteries.... is it plausible that third party makers reverse engineered the LP-E6 communication and that's why it killed their batteries?

Would they all pretty much use the same chip with their own tweaks?

 

[OskarB]

To put the power output of the LP-E6P into perspective, 6A delivers 43 watts at 7.2v. My e-bike has a 36v - 250 watt motor so 6 of these cells would power me along at 15.5 mph/25 km/h for about 18 minutes at full throttle (I think this calculation is right @OskarB). The R5ii sure is a hungry beast.

Your e-bike needs 250/36 = 6.9A to run on full load.
If you take 6 LP-E6P in series it delivers 6x7.2V = 43.2V (but still only 6A max).
You can take 5 LP-E6P (=36V) and it will drive your e-bike for 21 minutes with 216 watt at a lower speed (21.6 km/h).
So after 7.56 km you should turn around and go back.

 

[OskarB]

My working theory is they didn't plan ahead with the E6NH or even the E6N. They all use the same CR18500 cell, the battery management controller just isn't allowing those batteries to put out their full continuous discharge.

Maybe there was a logical region, such as reducing heat, or not wanting to manage the higher battery output in the camera itself to save money.

Fundamentally, the only thing that is different between these two batteries is the BMC

No, CR18500 only describes the chemistry used and the form factor. It doesn't say anything about any other technical spec like continious current flow, capacity, etc.

 

[AlanF]

Your e-bike needs 250/36 = 6.9A to run on full load.
If you take 6 LP-E6P in series it delivers 6x7.2V = 43.2V (but still only 6A max).
You can take 5 LP-E6P (=36V) and it will drive your e-bike for 21 minutes with 216 watt at a lower speed (21.6 km/h).
So after 7.56 km you should turn around and go back.

My e-bike battery storage is 630 wh. That would take a bank of 41 LP-E6P (in parallel and series) for equivalent storage, which would cost in the UK £4879, about 10x the cost of the highest quality e-bike battery.

 

[OskarB]

My e-bike battery storage is 630 kwh. That would take a bank of 41 LP-E6P (in parallel and series) for equivalent storage, which would cost in the UK £4879, about 10x the cost of the highest quality e-bike battery.

Same here. For the price of 5 LP-E6P I could buy a 500Wh Bosch e-bike battery, which is 33x the energy from the 5 camera batteries.
And for the price of one 500Wh e-bike battery I could get the equivalent of 5kWh of an EV battery, which is 10x the energy from the e-bike battery.

 

[OskarB]

That DJI Avinox system appears interesting, 600Wh/800Wh. I am eager to see the price for the system. Lighter than the Bosch stuff and way more torque.

Yeah, way off topic, but there's batteries in it.

My Bosch has a 750Wh battery and a 85Nm motor. The DJI has 800Wh and 105Nm. Especially the 105Nm are impressive.

 

[Canon Rumors]

My Bosch has a 750Wh battery and a 85Nm motor. The DJI has 800Wh and 105Nm. Especially the 105Nm are impressive.

Yeah, that'll have some added feel. However, first go and all? The bikes are rumored to be quite expensive.

 

[OskarB]

Yeah, that'll have some added feel. However, first go and all? The bikes are rumored to be quite expensive.

It depends on your usage. If you talk MTBs and go uphill steep the 105Nm will be fantastic. If you use your bike for trekking the 85Nm serve you very well. But thats really OT now.