Canon’s global mirrorless market share sits at 41%, with Sony as their “biggest competitor”

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#101
Richard CR said:
and you misread what I wrote and why i wrote it, you may want to try again.
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I doubt he misread it. He is just one of those people who can't admit when they're wrong, so when you start providing facts about apples, he shifts the discussion to oranges. If that doesn't provide sufficient tangentiality, he may try to discuss hammers or satellites.
 
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#102
Richard CR said:
"other cameras" which isn't included in their main camera breakdowns. what's your point?

Canon actually breaks out their camera line in the details. Sony does not. I'm not even sure why this is even a discussion.

After Canikon joined full frame mirrorless Sony started to play the shell game with its camera business.

Before then they even told you how many units they shipped, $ shipped value, and operating profit. They have since then moved it out and in to two different divisions and no reporting on units, etc have happened since.

So it's not that hard to determine who's actually trying to hide stuff.
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Or it could be that they're focused on being profitable as an entire company and don't analyze there data in a way that answers fanboy areguments on the internet. Again Canon has 1% of the CMOS market and Sony has 42%. Sony (corporation) doesn't see Canon (corporation) as a direct competitor the way people here do. They clearly didn't see Nikon as a direct competitor. Why would Sony make a sensor for Nikon who in return made the Z8 which has been getting praised as the best camera?

Again the Camera market is what 6M cameras? As mentioned before I don't think Sony cares if they are making cameras 10 years from now. Sony does $90B in revenue and Canon does $30B. The vast majority of these two companies aren't in competition.
 
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#103
Richard CR said:
All the companies have lower end models - including your Sony. They all make kits to target volume grey market retailers, etc.

Outside of the ZV-E10 which is Sony's attempt to catch Canon's magic with the M50/R50 - they are basically all doing the same thing.

and you misread what I wrote and why i wrote it, you may want to try again.
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Where did I state that companies don't have lower end models? My point is that they are abandoning these models. Sony's low end line used to be the rx100 point and shoot. They abandoned that line in favor of the ZV-1 cameras. They they have now stop making new ZV-1 cameras and moved toward ZV-E10 as their entry level. More than likey in the next few years they will abandon the Zv-E10 lineup for the full frame ZV-E1.

And it's not MY Sony. I get it that your a "premium" member with tons a messages so you're very invested in Canon. That's cool in all but not me. I could care less about Sony, Canon or any of the rest of these companies. I care about the technology and the gear. If Canon sold the R5mii for $2,500 I'd buy it and would be on the Sony forums telling them how they're doomed :ROFLMAO:
 
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#105
Richard CR said:
Wow. imagine starting off with this and then following it up the way you did.


No, Omnivision did. There's also no such thing as a "consumer" BSI. it's a BSI sensor developed using your patent rights.

If anyone "invented" it, I'd place my bets on Eric Fossum.



They held patents and released it first in the market - invented doesn't have any meaning here. Canon, OmniVision, Samsung all had patents in this space.


You know this is illegal, right? Canon has thousands of patents on sensor technology. They don't have to "copy" anyone's and they couldn't anyways how sony did their sensors is literally protected by their IP rights.

You really are out of your league here.

Pot meet kettle.

The methods and means of making stacked sensors for small sensors is 100000% different than it is for large sensors.
there's
a) heat.
b) noise
c) timing lag

Then you have the fact that most smartphone sensors are mounted to the phone and not on floating IBIS platform, adds in even more complexity. Also things such as localized heat sources, etc don't happen on smaller sensors.

All these a small sensor doesn't even have to consider - so yeah.. Physics and stuff.

This is even more an issue with the logic aspect because - usually as design rules shrink so does the die, but in the case of a sensor, the die cannot shrink - which then adds more resistance, and then heat, etc.

Then there's the fact that outside of readout speed, a stacked sensor really doesn't help that much when your pixel size is large. You stack a sensor to optimize the size of the pixel wells, but you already do that anyway with BSI. Stacked only allows you to optimize speed.

Canon unlike Sony - decides to release something when they feel it's good and serves the intended purpose. They don't usually take 3 generations to get it right.

Also - you do know that Canon commercialized a full frame global shutter sensor around 3 years ago - they just don't think it's worthy of being in a 1 series body. Again, unlike Sony.
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Ty Richard... That is a bitch slap of epic proportions.

“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so. “ - Mark Twain

This quote is just the world today. Ty YouTube, Twitter, Tik Tok, et all for making everyone dumber.
 
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#106
Richard CR said:
I mean I'm certainly invested considering I author a portion of the content you read on this website. Including, most of the patents - such as sensor patent analysis and writeups.

does that count?
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To each his own brother. I brought that up in response to your "your Sony" comment. We disagree, which is what makes things interesting. I'm highligting that in our disagreement only one of us is invested in these actual companies. Again, my only interest is getting cool gear to play with and I don't discriminate.

Sony is terrible at ergonomics. They suck at updating their firmware. They in fact ingnore older models and are too focused on pusing out new cameras with gimmicky features. For me the best camera out in terms of features for the selling price is the NIkon Z8. The best entry full frame camera is the Canon R8. The newly realeased R5mii is better than most of Sony's current lineup.

So the people here trying to "own" the Sony fanboy's seemed to be a bit misguided.
 
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#107
EOS 4 Life said:
Jordan Drake is an idiot.
He does not know a thing about sensors.
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Jordan has been producing solid videos for years with many different cams. He is obviously capable to put his tools to good use. With all due respect, but I would rather trust his opinion then someone called "EOS 4 Life" if I want unbiased information.

And calling him an idiot because you disagree with his assessment says more about you than him.
 
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#109
Richard CR said:
Except the R1 is primarily a sports camera.

Jordan doesn't do that.
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But the R1 is supposed to a "flagship" camera. Had the R1 instead been the R3mii, positioned as a sports camera then there would've been less criticism.

Jordan and the rest of the crew specifically addressed this. Why have the R3 which is a fast 24MP camera that leans towards sports and then come out with the R1 which is a slightly faster 24MP camera that leans towards sports. The R1 should be both fast and high megapixel.

Again I'm all here for the disagreements and gaining more knowledge. But when someone like Jordan who is clearly talented and regarded in the world of video is called an idiot because he criticizes someones favorite brand its clear emotions and not logic are involved.
 
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#112
CJaurelius said:
Jordan and the rest of the crew specifically addressed this. Why have the R3 which is a fast 24MP camera that leans towards sports and then come out with the R1 which is a slightly faster 24MP camera that leans towards sports. The R1 should be both fast and high megapixel.
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Why? Because you and some Internet bloggers think so? Look at the specs of Canon's flagships for the past 12 years. But you think the R1 should break that mold. Mmmmkay. Some people just like sounding foolish, I suppose.

Just because someone specifically addresses something on the internet doesn't make them right. Or look less like idiots.

The Flat Earth Society

Welcome to The Flat Earth Society, home of the flat earth forums and the largest library of Flat Earth Society journals, newsletters, interviews, and books.
theflatearthsociety.org
 
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#114
CJaurelius said:
You could always spend less time posting thousands of messages and create better content than them.
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I find it hard to believe the negative comments about the new cameras. To me it sounds like the R1 will be wonderful for sports photography and the R5 II will be wonderful for general photography with excellent video features. Unfortunately I can't buy any and I just hope that in the future Canon makes an R7 with a stacked sensor and improves a little on the current R7 model I'm using. If it doesn't happen in a couple of years I'll see if I get to an R5 II. I repeat, from my point of view the technology is very mature and what the new cameras bring seems very accurate to me according to Canon. If someone can't take good photos with an R1 or an R5II, maybe they should change their profession.
 
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#117
Canon Rumors Guy said:
We will .. real shooters .
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This forum is wild. Canon PAID to fly Jordan out to Arizona, gave him early access to preproduction units in exchange for him giving his opinion of their cameras. Then the people on the Canon Rumors forum trash Jordan, say he's an idiot, that their work is better and that they are real shooters.

Let me guess, the Sony fanboys jedi mind tricked Canon into doing this? Why wouldn't Canon just let you, a real shooter review the camera?

And Oh yeah they also flew out Jared Polin and Manny Ortiz who had similar complaints. Jared basically admits the R1 doesn't make much sense and he's team Canon all the way and said he will buy one because of course he has enough cash so it makes no difference.
 
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#118
CJaurelius said:
This forum is wild. Canon PAID to fly Jordan out to Arizona, gave him early access to preproduction units in exchange for him giving his opinion of their cameras. Then the people on the Canon Rumors forum trash Jordan, say he's an idiot, that their work is better and that they are real shooters.

Let me guess, the Sony fanboys jedi mind tricked Canon into doing this? Why wouldn't Canon just let you, a real shooter review the camera?

And Oh yeah they also flew out Jared Polin and Manny Ortiz who had similar complaints. Jared basically admits the R1 doesn't make much sense and he's team Canon all the way and said he will buy one because of course he has enough cash so it makes no difference.
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Stupid people spend money. So they listen to people that don't actually shoot.

Gerald reads you the manual...... Somehow an authority.

The media in this industry is pathetic... Like most media.
 
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#120
CJaurelius said:
Most of these cameras are more than capable of taking a great pictures and videos. The issue at this point is the value for what you are paying. Like I said before if the R5mii was $2,500 I would buy it and be singing it's praises.

From what I see the R5mii is getting mostly good reviews. They fixed some of the issues with the original R5 and improved it a bit. I think if you compare the R5mii to current competition its slightly better. The problem is that the competition is already 2-3 years old so as soon as they come out with their newer versions Canon will be playing catchup again.

The R1 on the other hand while its a great camera it's just overpriced. The original R3 came out at $6,000 which was a flop. We all know the rumors that it was supposed to be the R1 flagship but Sony dropped the A1 so they had to downgrade it. It quickly dropped from $6,000 down to $4,500 today, meanwhile the A1 still sells for $6,500. Now the R1 comes out and is essentially an upgraded R3. If the current R1 was instead an R3mii and the planned to sell it for $4,500 everyone would be saying it's the best camera and hands down better than the Sony A9iii at $6,000. But instead you see the response is flat.

No where in the people reviewing these cameras do they say that are bad cameras. They are all outstanding. But imagine your a sports shooter and you picked up an R3. You bought it for $6k new and now its $4,500 new. So you'd have to sell it for around $2,500 to upgrade to the R1 at $6,000. So while the cameras are great the roll out and pricing of them wasn't so great.
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While I agree that the R3 was overpriced at launch. It did not quickly drop in price to $4500 today. It dropped in price when the launch of the R1 was a few months away. This is no different that the R5 decrease in price as the R5 Mk2 launch was a few months away.

Mark my word, 3.5 years from now when the R1 Mk2 is planned for release we will also see a significant decrease in the R1 price. For me this is not surprising and readily expected.
 
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