Canon’s global mirrorless market share sits at 41%, with Sony as their “biggest competitor”

[CJaurelius]

Speaking of Jared Polin, today he released a video with the title "Canon’s NEW Auto Focus is MIND-BLOWING!!! CRUSHES Sony & Nikon! (R1 / R5 Mark II AF Review)"

And he's not the only one with that opinion. From what I can tell the auto focus for sports (currently basketball, soccer and volleyball) is truly next level and most people reviewing it agree. Most people are also high on the R5mii. But these people are all idiots and grifters so who knows

 

[CJaurelius]

While I agree that the R3 was overpriced at launch. It did not quickly drop in price to $4500 today. It dropped in price when the launch of the R1 was a few months away. This is no different that the R5 decrease in price as the R5 Mk2 launch was a few months away.

Mark my word, 3.5 years from now when the R1 Mk2 is planned for release we will also see a significant decrease in the R1 price. For me this is not surprising and readily expected.

The price drops on the R3 started in January 2023. It bounced around and was $5000 by the end of 2023. Then in Febuary 2024 they permanantly dropped the price to $4,500. The R1 didn't officially get acknowledged until May 2024, officially announced now in July 2024 and probably won't be able to be in retail customers hands until 2025.

If the R1 is the flagship camera then it should be the mirrorless successor to the 1DXmiii which still sells for $6,500. And again the Sony A1 came out a full year before the R3 and it is still priced at $6,500. The R3 was the best they had at the time so they priced it as a flagship camera.

Canon cut the price because they missed the mark. They though it was going to be the flagship. Sony released the A1 so they downgraded it from the R1 to the R3. Then Nikon came out with the Z9 for $5,500 right after the R3 was released.

And again to be clear, the R3 is a great camera. The issue was never the capabilities it was its positioning in the market relative to its competition.

And how are they going to drop the R1 $4,500 when the R1mii gets announced. Why would anyone in their right mind buy an R1 now when its going to be so heavily discounted in 1 - 2 years. And how would they sell an R3mii? If they plan to sell it for $4,500 in a couple of years the R1 would be the same price by then.

The camera market is losing sales at the bottom and working to increase the high end prices to compensate, I'm not sure how you do that and cut prices like that.

 

[Richard CN]

And how are they going to drop the R1 $4,500 when the R1mii gets announced. Why would anyone in their right mind buy an R1 now when its going to be so heavily discounted in 1 - 2 years.

that always happens.

why would they buy it now? because it has a competitive advantage for them to do their actual job. Let's assume a professional mirrorless camera will last for the entire cycle ie: 4 years. That works out to 130 / month - or most likely 260 per month for that and a backup. Your price drop is immaterial.

The R1's AF is insane and the capabilities that it offers the target market is absolutely bonkers.

That target market is all about auto focus. and right now anyway, no one can match what the R1 can do in terms of autofocus.

This is why Jordon's opinion means nothing.

I really don't think you can grasp just how next level it will be to have the autofocus know the people it's supposed to focus on. All you literally have to do is look. There's no other camera that offers that. None. Everyone at the Olympics will want to try an R1.

for instance;

You are shooting soccer on assignment and want to focus on Messi? Just take a headshot of him first. the camera will do the rest after that - You don't even need to select focus. Only taking pictures of the home team? take all their headshots, the camera will only focus on players from your team.

Shooting a wedding? Put the bride and groom in the camera. even on a busy dance floor, the focus will follow them.

Taking photos in the WH on assignment to take photos of the president? Snap an image of the president's face, and the camera will track him no matter where he is in the crowd.

THIS is why I wrote on the article - this is the 1 series camera we have been waiting for. Megapixels don't matter as much, but damn, next level AF that reads your damned mind? This is the next level of evolution of autofocus.

It's also in a camera body that doesn't die in the cold weather and is rock solid. Both NIkon and Canon know how to build professional cameras that work.

 

[Toamelicious]

I must say this launch has been incredibly entertaining. Not only are there the typical specsheet rants about megapixels, dynamic range and readout speeds, but now also definitions of flagships and manufacturers nomenclature.
First there were lots of people calling the R3 an R1 in disguise, because canon was embarrassed for it. And now these people call the R1 an R3 instead because they wanted their own definition of a 1 series camera to compete with the respective "flagships" (can we agree that calling anything that is basically a tool for work and or art a flagship is incredibly stupid?) of the competition.

You guys make my day every day of the week. Please keep the content coming. I love reading this bickering.

 

[John Wilde]

Canon cut the price because they missed the mark

Google the business term Price Skimming. It's a pricing strategy used by many companies. The strategy is to initially price a product high, and then cut the price over time.

 

[Richard CN]

But the R1 is supposed to a "flagship" camera. Had the R1 instead been the R3mii, positioned as a sports camera then there would've been less criticism.

Jordan and the rest of the crew specifically addressed this. Why have the R3 which is a fast 24MP camera that leans towards sports and then come out with the R1 which is a slightly faster 24MP camera that leans towards sports. The R1 should be both fast and high megapixel.

Again I'm all here for the disagreements and gaining more knowledge. But when someone like Jordan who is clearly talented and regarded in the world of video is called an idiot because he criticizes someones favorite brand its clear emotions and not logic are involved.

what do you know about the 1 series? anything about the history of this level of cameras between Nikon and Canon going back to film days?

"world of video" has literally sweet F.A. to do with the 1 series. Jordon is literally the last person who i'd expect an opinion on this.

maybe give this a read even though it really doesn't go back far enough, but it may give you a better idea.

Exploring Canon’s Digital EOS-1 Legacy

Forward It seemed like a swell idea to walk down memory lane a bit and relive the 1 series from back in 2001, nearly 24 years in the making.The 1 series has

www.canonrumors.com

 

[Richard CN]

I find it hard to believe the negative comments about the new cameras. To me it sounds like the R1 will be wonderful for sports photography and the R5 II will be wonderful for general photography with excellent video features. Unfortunately I can't buy any and I just hope that in the future Canon makes an R7 with a stacked sensor and improves a little on the current R7 model I'm using. If it doesn't happen in a couple of years I'll see if I get to an R5 II. I repeat, from my point of view the technology is very mature and what the new cameras bring seems very accurate to me according to Canon. If someone can't take good photos with an R1 or an R5II, maybe they should change their profession.

I want an APS-C version of the 5D Mark II.

I would sell a kidney.

 

[frankchn]

While I agree that the R3 was overpriced at launch. It did not quickly drop in price to $4500 today. It dropped in price when the launch of the R1 was a few months away. This is no different that the R5 decrease in price as the R5 Mk2 launch was a few months away.

Mark my word, 3.5 years from now when the R1 Mk2 is planned for release we will also see a significant decrease in the R1 price. For me this is not surprising and readily expected.

Did the previous 1 series cameras drop in price when the new one was introduced? My recollection was that those were just discontinued.

In any case, the 1DX3 is still Canon’s most expensive FF camera today

 

[CJaurelius]

that always happens.

why would they buy it now? because it has a competitive advantage for them to do their actual job. Let's assume a professional mirrorless camera will last for the entire cycle ie: 4 years. That works out to 130 / month - or most likely 260 per month for that and a backup. Your price drop is immaterial.

But it doesn't always happens and in fact almost never happens. Again the A1 which is older than the R3 is still the same price. The Z9 which came out a month later is still the same price. The 1DXmiii which came out a year before the R3 is still the same price. Its only the R3 that has reduce in price this much. Sure you knock off $500 AFTER the new model is realeased. For the R3 the price started dropping a year later because of bad sales.

The R1's AF is insane and the capabilities that it offers the target market is absolutely bonkers.

That target market is all about auto focus. and right now anyway, no one can match what the R1 can do in terms of autofocus.

This is why Jordon's opinion means nothing.

You do realize that the R5mii has the same amazing auto focus. People (including Jordan) acknowledge the auto focus. For a sports shooter its a great advantage. Which only confirms Jordan's point. The R3 line is low megapixel high speed camera geared toward sports. The R1 is a slightly better low megapixel high speed camera now with better auto focus gear toward sports. Hence the R1 is the R3mii.

THIS is why I wrote on the article - this is the 1 series camera we have been waiting for. Megapixels don't matter as much, but damn, next level AF that reads your damned mind? This is the next level of evolution of autofocus.

And this is the issue, Canon people here only think in terms of Canon. the R1 is the best sports camera. If you ask me if the R1 is better than the Sony A9iii I'd say that is debatable. The A9iii does 120 fps vs 40fps. The photo of Trump with the bullet was captured on the A9iii. But the Canon will probably have better DR. For arguments sake lets say I agree. So then we would be in agreement that the R1 is the BEST low megapixel high speed camera. And in the Canon world you had low megapixel high speed cameras and high megapixel low speed cameras. You finally have the best low megapixel high speed camera, great. But since then the world has changed and now Sony and Nikon are making high megapixel high speed cameras. People wanted a Canon version and they didn't get it. People want the speed of the R1 with 50MP+

It's also in a camera body that doesn't die in the cold weather and is rock solid. Both NIkon and Canon know how to build professional cameras that work.

No disagreements here.

 

[David_B]

The R1's AF is insane and the capabilities that it offers the target market is absolutely bonkers.

That target market is all about auto focus. and right now anyway, no one can match what the R1 can do in terms of autofocus.
...
You are shooting soccer on assignment and want to focus on Messi? Just take a headshot of him first. the camera will do the rest after that - You don't even need to select focus. Only taking pictures of the home team? take all their headshots, the camera will only focus on players from your team.

The R1 allows for 9 subjects to be loaded.

If Canon can squeeze in the capability to do that for 2-3 people with the R8 & R10 they'll sweep the floor with the other brands in the soccer mum market.

 

[CJaurelius]

what do you know about the 1 series? anything about the history of this level of cameras between Nikon and Canon going back to film days?

"world of video" has literally sweet F.A. to do with the 1 series. Jordon is literally the last person who i'd expect an opinion on this.

I don't think you understand Jordan's point. People here are talking about Canon in terms of what Canon has done in the past and its existing customers. Jordan openly states that in terms of just reviewing the camera in relation to what Canon has put out in the past he thinks the camera is fine. The discussion he, Chris and Jaron were having was how the camera stacks up to what the competition is doing. So he openly admits that someone who is invested into the Canon ecosystem is not going to care about their view when comparing them to other brands.

And again, it wasn't just Jordan's criticism. The same sentiment was given by Jordan, Chris and Joron of Petapixel, Jared Polin, Manny Ortiz, Tool, Ted Forbes, Dan Waston, etc. LIke pretty much every person that has reviewed this camera came to the same conclusion.

maybe give this a read even though it really doesn't go back far enough, but it may give you a better idea.

I will check it out.

 

[CJaurelius]

The R1 allows for 9 subjects to be loaded.

If Canon can squeeze in the capability to do that for 2-3 people with the R8 & R10 they'll sweep the floor with the other brands in the soccer mum market.

lol, do you really think soccer moms are a significant portion camera sales in 2024? As a soccer dad I never see anyone taking pictures with anything but their phones. I think that is part of the disconect with the forum. People here tend to trend older and seem a bit detached from what the market is doing.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/1...stry-according-to-the-people-who-make-cameras

If there's a single theme virtually every leader in the industry can agree on, it's that video is a significant growth driver for the market. Video content is everywhere, and the expectation is that video – whether used by TikTok creators or international media brands – is the best hope of driving the market.

Every company is placing a considerable emphasis on attracting hybrid users who shoot both stills and video and, in some cases, only video. We're going to see camera companies focusing more on video features and capabilities and probably many more products explicitly targeting that audience. It's why a company like Nikon, which isn't historically known as a go-to company for video products, put so much emphasis on video features in a camera like the Z9.

Camera companies see video use growing across all categories of users, but there's one segment they're all laser-focused on: creators. I couldn't get through five minutes of conversation without hearing the word 'creator.'

The Canon R8 does 4k60 uncropped. Most people are using these cameras to create content for YouTube, Insta, TikTok, etc. If you think any brand is going to clean up by appealing to soccer moms then you've missed the plot, Apple wiped the floor with all of them in this segment years ago.

 

[Richard CN]

You do realize that the R5mii has the same amazing auto focus. People (including Jordan) acknowledge the auto focus. For a sports shooter its a great advantage. Which only confirms Jordan's point. The R3 line is low megapixel high speed camera geared toward sports. The R1 is a slightly better low megapixel high speed camera now with better auto focus gear toward sports. Hence the R1 is the R3mii.

Jordon doesn't have a point.

3 series was always just a cheaper variant of the 1.

This is where I'm going to be a little blunt, and it's not to belittle you - but you really have no idea what the 1DX/1series R1 is all about and neither does Jordon.

The R5Mark II is a fabulous camera. but it won't drive the AF the same, and nor will it have the amperage to drive the big whites as fast the same as the R1. and nor, and more importantly, is it as robust as the R1.

All those in combination make a 1 series camera.

Every camera is just a better version of another. It's up to the camera company to decide if they want to make it a new model of an existing camera line, versus an entirely separate line all together.

It really doesn't matter if it's an R3 Mark II or an R1 - it's still going to be 24MP and it's still going to sit on top of Canon's food chain. They aren't going to make a large MP "flagship" because they don't do that. That's what they have the R5 for.

There's historical proof that Canon has done this with the 1 series and 5 series in the past.

Something Jordan can't understand it seems - how it stacks up to the competition is immaterial. That AF is class-leading. There is nothing else out there. MP doesn't mean anything if you can't get the shot.

Why would canon even care about other brands? You want to know their customers? it's those still with 1DX cameras, and the huge installed base of EF professionals that were waiting for a new 1 series camera.

Anyway, this subject is done. if you want to continue it, feel free to create a thread to discuss what exactly a 1 series camera is.

Enough already.

 

[john1970]

Did the previous 1 series cameras drop in price when the new one was introduced? My recollection was that those were just discontinued.

In any case, the 1DX3 is still Canon’s most expensive FF camera today

Currently B&H Photo is selling the 1Dx Mk3 for $4999 instead of the full retail price. So yes the 1Dx Mk3 is discounted significantly until the R1 ships at the end of November.

 

[CJaurelius]

Currently B&H Photo is selling the 1Dx Mk3 for $4999 instead of the full retail price. So yes the 1Dx Mk3 is discounted significantly until the R1 ships at the end of November.

The 1DxMiii still $6,500 at B&H and Adorama.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1618943-REG/canon_3829c002_eos_1d_x_mark_iii.html

https://www.adorama.com/ica1dxm3.html

And of course listed at $6,500 on Canon's website.

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/eos-1d-x-mark-iii?color=Black&type=New

 

[john1970]

The 1DxMiii still $6,500 at B&H and Adorama.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1618943-REG/canon_3829c002_eos_1d_x_mark_iii.html

https://www.adorama.com/ica1dxm3.html

And of course listed at $6,500 on Canon's website.

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/eos-1d-x-mark-iii?color=Black&type=New

If you add it to the cart the price is $4999.

 

[CJaurelius]

If you add it to the cart the price is $4999.

View attachment 218328

Got it. Still full price at Adorama if you add it to the cart. So it appears they reduced the price after the new model was announced, not a year after released.

 

[john1970]

I want an APS-C version of the 5D Mark II.

I would sell a kidney.

An APS-C version of a 5D Mk2 would be great though I'm not selling my organs for it

 

[Richard CN]

An APS-C version of a 5D Mk2 would be great though I'm not selling my organs for it

I figure I'm old enough that it's not worth much at this stage

 

[Jethro]

It really doesn't matter if it's an R3 Mark II or an R1 - it's still going to be 24MP and it's still going to sit on top of Canon's food chain. They aren't going to make a large MP "flagship" because they don't do that. That's what they have the R5 for.

Exactly. In a nutshell. They are different tools for different uses.