Canon EOS R7 Mark II: What We Know

[AlanF]

Since R7MK2 is targeting the high-end market, can we expect some exciting features? For example, a DIGIX accelerator or eye-controlled autofocus. Of course, beyond these, more practical needs include a pre-shooting mode similar to the R5MK2 (instead of the current implementation) and a faster rolling shutter.

Mechanical shutters and EFCS each have their issues: the former produces significant vibration, while the latter disables the automatic leveling function when enabled. Additionally, the pre-shooting feature can only be implemented with the electronic shutter...

The mechanical shutter does not produce discernible vibration that affects the R7 images at the high shutter speeds that are used where rolling shutter would be a problem with ES. The pre-shooting feature with the R7 is pretty much a dead loss, and Canon got pre-capture right only in its latest implementation on the R5ii and elsewhere. Otherwise, the problems with the R7 have their workarounds, and those who complain usually haven't put in the effort or have the sense to get the best out of the camera, or haven't used the camera and are repeating hearsay.

 

[AlanF]

Put an RF 100-300mm f/2.8 on a 40 Mpx crop sensor and you will get the reach/resolution of a 200-600mm on an R1 and will be well below the diffraction limit, and have a nice wide aperture to keep the iso down. Expensive, but a hand-holdable 200-600mm that many clamour for wouldn't be cheap.

 

[dwkdnvr]

I guess I'm not a critical power user, since I'm mostly pretty happy with my R7. I think dropping the readout speed from 30ms to 15ms would solve most of the problems (rolling shutter and AF inconsistency, although AF may need additional processing capacity to keep up). I like the compact form factor (close to my Olympus E-M1.2 which is the most comfortable body I've ever handled), and I'm only using the R7 so ergonomic differences with other bodies don't bother me. I'll likely consider the upgrade, but may struggle to justify it depending on how far up-market they go - certainly $2.5K would be a no-go unless/until I find a few extra hours in the day to make more/better use of my existing gear.

I'd be a bit surprised if they pushed the R7 to 40MP, if only because Canon has opted NOT to increase resolution at the expense of speed in FF bodies to this point, and for the bird/wildlife use-cases where the R7 is attractive the aperture-limited tele lenses would hit diffraction softening even wide open. This is even more true if the R7 MkII is going to serve as the basis of an R7V (assuming the same sensor and not a Fuji-style split with 2 different sensors) - 40MP is far more of a problem than an advantage in video unless you're aiming for 8k, and I can't see slow 8k being more important than fast/good 4k in that target market. IMHO high quality oversampled 4k120 would be far more valuable than 8k30.

But, there's a reason I'm not in marketing - I am probably way out of sync with what will actually sell.

 

[pierceography]

My primary genre these days is sports photography (my kids, wrestling and baseball). With baseball especially, the open field will push my r5m2, even with a 2x TC on the 100-300 f/2.8L. Unfortunately, there are two products in Canon's backlog that I'm waiting on to solve this problem: The r7m2 and the (very rumored) RF 600mm f/4L II.

My hesitation in purchasing the current r7 is the ergonomics are horrible. It looks/feels like an expensive Rebel. My original rig pairing was a 5dmk3 with a 7d. I could barely tell the difference between the cameras when swapping between the two and it was lovely. So my #1 with a bullet request for the r7m2 is please please please make it a crop r5m2 ergonomically.

I don't even need 40mp; The current resolution is adequate. The following would be wonderful:

- Mirror the r5m2 ergonomics
- CF Express B card slot (take or leave a secondary SD slot)
- Latest AF
- Stacked sensor for faster readout
- 14 bit electronic shutter
- Upgraded EVF w/eye control (not a must have, but I do enjoy EC in my triple back button focus setup)

If Canon can nail the above, my $2k preorder would be submitted on announcement day.

 

[scyrene]

Crop sensors are good for 2 things over FF. Reach and portability.

You forgot the top one: price.

 

[scyrene]

Obviously I can't gainsay the "reputable" sources, but some of this sounds like wishful thinking.

 

[Askeladden]

The button layout on the R7 is way more intuitive than on the R5 for instance. The accessibility of the back scroll wheel located right next to where the thumb naturally rests makes it easier to adjust settings on the fly. It allows for a much more firm grip on the camera. I suspect the only reason they didn't make such innovations with the R5 is because it would have caused an uproar from 5D series users.

 

[ReflexVE]

This is nice to see, a big part of why I switched to Fuji was the ability to get pro level bodies with an APS-C sensor. I absolutely love my X-H2s, but if Fuji dropped out of the space it is nice to know that Canon is starting to recognize the value again. They have a long way to go to catch up on the glass side, but I'm not in the market yet anyway.

Good news, hopefully it comes true.

 

[fox40phil]

The mechanical shutter does not produce discernible vibration that affects the R7 images at the high shutter speeds that are used where rolling shutter would be a problem with ES. The pre-shooting feature with the R7 is pretty much a dead loss, and Canon got pre-capture right only in its latest implementation on the R5ii and elsewhere. Otherwise, the problems with the R7 have their workarounds, and those who complain usually haven't put in the effort or have the sense to get the best out of the camera, or haven't used the camera and are repeating hearsay.

I can't shot on shutter speed below ~ 1/320 or 1/500...because of the vibration with my 300 2.8 L II. this sux hard because of the heavy noise /soft images on the R7 in the evening. But also maybe the pixel density is to high for longer exposures for moving subjects idk.... buts its pain!

I would love to have a R7 II with the image quality of an R6(I) with 30MP, fast readout!! and a good buffer.... gooo for it Canon! would love to have a real APS-C flagship!
And don't forgett the 3rd wheel.... -.-"

 

[AlanF]

I can't shot on shutter speed below ~ 1/320 or 1/500...because of the vibration with my 300 2.8 L II. this sux hard because of the heavy noise /soft images on the R7 in the evening. But also maybe the pixel density is to high for longer exposures for moving subjects idk.... buts its pain!

I would love to have a R7 II with the image quality of an R6(I) with 30MP, fast readout!! and a good buffer.... gooo for it Canon! would love to have a real APS-C flagship!
And don't forgett the 3rd wheel.... -.-"

Why aren't you using ES at 1/320s or 1/500s?

 

[john1970]

Will be interesting to see what Canon releases for the R7 Mk2. If the ergonomics are like the R5 Mk2 I might be interested. I would also like to see a stacked sensor, but this is likely asking too much at the price point. We shall see...

 

[David - Sydney]

Well, with the R7 being released three years ago, it shouldn't come as a surprise that the replacement is on the horizon.

Let's just say that Canon hasn't had a regular upgrade lifecycle for their 7 series bodies in the past.... happy if now does happen though!

 

[David - Sydney]

It hasn't hurt Sony to only offer 8k UHD vs the DCI in the A1 vs the R5 series.
8K UHD video resolution is 7680 x 4320 pixels = 33mp with 3:2 aspect ratio being 39mp vs DCI which needs ~45mp (3:2)
8K would enable the VR lenses to work which could be one driver but Canon seems to be way ahead of the VR market implementation rate.

Assuming that high fps will be an expected from a 7D and with 40mp then the processor/AF processor, bus and buffer will need the latest Digic setup. Not much lower bandwidth than the R1/R5ii when it comes to analysing and shifting data. Reusing widgets/designs is good but the pricing will be a step up from the ~USD1500 price. USD2k or higher would not surprise me especially if a stacked sensor is used to reduce rolling shutter.

Matching ergonomics was great when I moved from 7D to 5Diii and seemed to be appreciated from the general users with both bodies.

 

[ashmadux]

I remember when the first 7D was coming out and everyone was worried that 18mp on a crop sensor would be way too much.

Personally I prefer crop sensors for my own uses because of the size and weight savings. For instance, My 5d Mk3 was an amazing camera but that body with the associated L lenses was so heavy I often left it at home and brought the excellent M50 body with its lenses. The best camera in the world is the one you have when you need to take the shot.
Crop sensors are good for 2 things over FF. Reach and portability. I don't take pictures of birds in flight and I don't care about FPS, If canon makes the large R7 body even bigger then I want Canon to put IBIS in the R10 or R50 and I will go that way instead.

Thats the thing, 7d wasn't small (GREAT body, I had one until the AF couldn't get fixed after 3 tries). At all. Still one of the best handling body I've wver used next to the goldy 5d3.

R8 is smaller, but still an order bigger than the pedestrian r10/50. R100 is not a real camera so there's that. That R7 back side layout..looks...cheap with a weird button placement.

I had a thought cross my mind that the r8 and a prime would be small enough to be considered a walk around but nope still too big compared to the m50s great form factor and the M Small lenses. (Not a birder myself). I really didnt like the cheapness of the r8 buttons, that was a surprise. The 6d never felt like a reduced cheaper 5d3, button and feel wise (have that too.).

Just speaking for myself but I will never buy another big camera again because it just doesn't make sense. (7d days are over). The full frame R series camera are small enough that it doesn't really make enough of a difference size wise to a 7 body style. And a featherlite camera in a body with no Ibis is nonsensical.

 

[LSXPhotog]

“That’s a lot of pixels on an APS-C sensor, but Fujifilm seems to have done a good job with it.”

I don’t believe they did a good job at all, actually. I honestly don’t understand why that’s the consensus around the internet and Fuji groups. Specifically using that sensor in the X-T5 versus the X-T4 resulted in reduced buffer, higher rolling shutter speed, no increase in dynamic range, significantly lower video quality (which nobody ever talks about) and performance outside of the oversampled mode that has a crop and high rolling shutter, and it’s legitimately atrocious in low light. At 6400 ISO, noise levels are incredibly high and at 12800, specs of red noise shows up in the shadows that has to be manually removed with a brush tool. It’s pathetic. I’ve owned 3 cameras with this new Fujifilm 40mp sensor and they all do it. The current R7 sensor is leaps and bounds ahead of the X-Trans V HR.

I want a stacked sensor. I personally don’t want 40MP, but if they did, I would hope it wouldn’t come with so many compromises that Fujifilm overlooked as it continues to shove that sensor into everything. Meanwhile, they have a stacked 26mp sensor in the X-H2S and only that camera that’s BEAUTIFUL to use.

 

[ReflexVE]

“That’s a lot of pixels on an APS-C sensor, but Fujifilm seems to have done a good job with it.”

I don’t believe they did a good job at all, actually. I honestly don’t understand why that’s the consensus around the internet and Fuji groups. Specifically using that sensor in the X-T5 versus the X-T4 resulted in reduced buffer, higher rolling shutter speed, no increase in dynamic range, significantly lower video quality (which nobody ever talks about) and performance outside of the oversampled mode that has a crop and high rolling shutter, and it’s legitimately atrocious in low light. At 6400 ISO, noise levels are incredibly high and at 12800, specs of red noise shows up in the shadows that has to be manually removed with a brush tool. It’s pathetic. I’ve owned 3 cameras with this new Fujifilm 40mp sensor and they all do it. The current R7 sensor is leaps and bounds ahead of the X-Trans V HR.

I want a stacked sensor. I personally don’t want 40MP, but if they did, I would hope it wouldn’t come with so many compromises that Fujifilm overlooked as it continues to shove that sensor into everything. Meanwhile, they have a stacked 26mp sensor in the X-H2S and only that camera that’s BEAUTIFUL to use.

Only person I know who claims this experience with the 40MP Fuji sensor. Have dozens of users in my discord, nobody claims this on the video side. I'm not saying it isn't true, I went with the H2s over the H2, but people with the 40MP option seem to really like it.

 

[InternalRevenue]

Not thrilled with the idea of a bigger body, and I actually like the placement of the wheel (my thumb naturally rests there, though the AF stick right in the middle is easy to accidentally hit), but I can understand how those using it as a companion body to R5 et all would want more comparable ergonomics.

What I absolutely DON'T want to see is Canon shifting the video switch to the left side of the body as they have done since the R6II. Bracing a telephoto with your left hand while the bird you're photographing is perfectly in frame? Get ready to have to hunt for it all over again if you dare want a video of it.

 

[Tom W]

My R7 is really my birding workhorse. The R5 has a little bit cleaner files at higher ISO, which is sometimes needed in darker forests, but the pixel density of the R7 makes it really a good contender in that scenario.

32 megapixels to around 40 - Wow!! I hope they can pull out some really clean files from it. I'm not sure how much more can be gotten with the very tiny pixels but technology marches on, at least to the limits of physics.

This body would really interest me. Let's see how it unfolds over the next few months.

 

[Tom W]

I know a few people that have had the R7 and all have had issues. The rolling shutter on these is awful as well.

Yeah, the rolling shutter is strong on the R7. Keep in mind that its sensor showed up first, a few years ago, on the M6 Mk II and the 90D, back in 2019. It was possibly refined a bit for the R7, but I think that all the speed and the basic package is essentially 6 years old.

Quite a nice sensor in the R7 in terms of clean images, especially given its pixel density. But the readout speeds have increased a great deal since the original version of this sensor.

For me, it's not important. I rely on the mechanical shutter basically (well, I use electronic first curtain, let the door slam shut on the back end) and don't really see the effects of rolling shutter. I suppose that if I were shooting something with a lot of movement, I'd be looking at that aspect.

 

[DhlcadR6]

I'm one of the minority who likes R7 back layout, but I can see it will get changed because the hate from majority. I'm not asking much, just give me stacked CMOS with R5ii AF so I would have a easier time tracking fighter jets ;p