Canon Interview: EOS R1 is the true flagship

[neuroanatomist]

And gets to explain what they mean by the term. And gets to own the confusion and uncertainty when they don't.

Who is confused, though? I get that you are, are you in the target market for the R1? Certainly some YouTubers and bloggers are confused, or are pretending to be since beating up on Canon is a good way to generate page views, but they’re not the target market.

I owned the 1D X and currently own the R3. That puts me in the target market, and I’m not confused.

Canon doesn’t have to explain anything, they have to sell cameras to people that want to buy them. It seems the people who are confused are mostly those who had no intention of buying the R1 anyway.

 

[MikeGalos]

Who is confused, though?

Can you tell us what Canon means by a "Flagship" camera?

If not, you are confused, too.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Can you tell us what Canon means by a "Flagship" camera?

If not, you are confused, too.

A 1-series camera, like the 1D X, 1D X II, 1D X III, and R1. Really, this is not hard.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Can you tell us what Canon means by a "Flagship" camera?

Posted this on another thread, it’s also relevant here.

The 1-series is on a 4-year cycle and Canon launched the 1D X III in 2020, so the R1 wasn't coming until 2024. Canon knew they needed a top-shelf MILC for those who wanted to transition to the RF mount, since those lenses offer some significant advantages, so they designed the R3 and knew going in that the R1 would end up being very similar.

So why have both the R3 and the R1 in the catalog? A year before the development announcement for the R1, they started dropping the price of the R3. It's now down below the price of the R5II, and thus the R3 clearly differentiates from the R1 on price.

View attachment 219254

People want to read all sorts of nonsense into what is really a set of straightforward product development decisions.

 

[Omn]

Can you tell us what Canon means by a "Flagship" camera?

If not, you are confused, too.

The same thing it meant before.

Top camera model.

Canon doesn't get to change the meaning of the word, nor do gear preachers.

 

[MikeGalos]

The same thing it meant before.

Top camera model.

Canon doesn't get to change the meaning of the word, nor do gear preachers.

If that were true then the Canon F1 High Speed Motor Drive Camera would have been the Flagship.
Marketing terms change all the time.
For that matter, as I asked before, what changed between the R3 and the R1 that made one explicitly NOT the flagship and the other explicitly the Flagship.

 

[Omn]

For that matter, as I asked before, what changed between the R3 and the R1 that made one explicitly NOT the flagship and the other explicitly the Flagship.

Let's try to reduce overthinking:

R3 was the flagship as there was no R1 and R1 was postponed. They targeted superior performance for R1 badge. Now here it is and R1 is their flagship. And R3 is still fantastic and much more acessible now. Simple.

Problems ?

 

[candyman]

and R1 was postponed

Just for the record, R1 wasn't postponed. It came on it's 4 year 1-series cycle: 2024.

 

[MikeGalos]

R3 was the flagship as there was no R1 and R1 was postponed.

Except Canon explicitly stated that the R3 was not a flagship.

 

[neuroanatomist]

R3 was the flagship as there was no R1 and R1 was postponed. They targeted superior performance for R1 badge. Now here it is and R1 is their flagship. And R3 is still fantastic and much more acessible now. Simple.

Problems ?

Yes, as pointed out above the R1 was not postponed, it was right on schedule...and Canon said the R3 was not the flagship.

It's even simpler. Really, really simple. The 1D X III was the flagship until the R1 came along. If you look carefully, you'll notice that both of those models have the number '1' in their model name. The flagship before the 1D X III was the 1D X II. The Flagship before the 1D X II was the 1D X. Before that, Canon had two flagships, the 1DIV and the 1DsIII. All of those have a '1' in the name. Cameras without a '1' in the name are not the flagship.

It doesn't get much simpler. A '1' in the name = Flagship. Easy-peasy.

But I'm sure some people will remain confused, just like there are people who think the earth is flat.

 

[MikeGalos]

It doesn't get much simpler. A '1' in the name = Flagship. Easy-peasy.

So if the replacement for the RP was the RP1 it would be a flagship?

 

[neuroanatomist]

So if the replacement for the RP was the RP1 it would be a flagship?

I mean, you could at least try to be somewhat rational. Like asking if the R100 and R10 are flagships because they also have a '1' in their name. That was pretty low-hanging fruit, and you totally missed it. Can you please make an even more ridiculous and asinine suggestion? Here, let me help you out...I just made this Nikon consumer camera into a Canon flagship. Actually it's the Nikon 1 V1, so it's really two Canon flagships at the same time because it has two 1's in the name.



I'm really sorry this concept is so hard for you to grasp. Good luck.

Incidentally, there was a flagship P&S camera back in the heyday of P&S cameras, and it had a 1 in the name, too. Had a red ring around the lens and everything!

 

[MikeGalos]

I mean, you could at least try to be somewhat rational. Like asking if the R100 and R10 are flagships because they also have a '1' in their name.

Exactly. If, as some claim here, having a numeral 1 in the name is the rule for determining whether a camera is a flagship or not, that would be true.

Hence my asking, once again and with no actual response, what makes (and we'll use full names in case having both a 1 and a capital E is next claimed to be what matters) the Canon EOS R1 a flagship and officially declared so by Canon while the Canon EOS R3 is not a flagship also officially declared so by Canon.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Exactly. If, as some claim here, having a numeral 1 in the name is the rule for determining whether a camera is a flagship or not, that would be true.

Hence my asking, once again and with no actual response, what makes (and we'll use full names in case having both a 1 and a capital E is next claimed to be what matters) the Canon EOS R1 a flagship and officially declared so by Canon while the Canon EOS R3 is not a flagship also officially declared so by Canon.

Do you really need it explained to you that the number ‘1’ is not identical to the number ‘10’ or the number ‘100’? My kids understood that as young toddlers. Positional (place-value) notation is a pretty basic concept. The same concept applies to letters, if it didn’t then a funeral would be real fun and your friends might as well call you Mega Kilos.

As I said, I’m sorry you’re confused by what is a very simple concept. If you don’t get it by now, there’s probably not much hope that you ever will.

 

[MikeGalos]

If you don’t get it by now, there’s probably not much hope that you ever will.

You really are saying that, unlike other brands, Canon defines a flagship camera as any camera where they use a number 1 in the name.

You really are saying that a flagship has nothing to do with features nor functionality.

You really are saying that if Canon changed the name of the R3 to R1B and the R5 to R1C and the R7 to R1D they'd all be flagships regardless of functionality.

You really are saying that if they renamed the R1 to R2 there would be no flagship.

You really are saying that?

 

[docsmith]

I think the point is that that they are Canon's products and, as such, Canon gets to say what they call a "Flagship". For the last several decades, Canon has used the "1" series to denote their Flagship.

It is subjective. There is no standard out there, unless we are suddenly talking about a Navy and which ship the Admiral/ranking officer is on. Although, I think it is worth pointing out, even in the Navy, the "Flagship" is whichever ship the commanding officer is currently aboard...frigate, aircraft carrier or dingy. It isn't always the biggest or best ship.

But the main point of my post is to invert the thought....what if Canon had named the R3 the "R1" in 2021. As some people are questioning if the R1 even is a true "flagship," just take a second and consider the features and more mature technology that is in the R1. A great summary, scroll down to the alternatives in TDP's R1 review. And flip this around, the list of advantages of the R3 over the R1....

• "4.15 million dot LCD vs. 2.1 million
• modestly smaller and lighter
• Lower price"

...that is not a relevant list if you want to argue about "Flagship". The list of advantages of the R1 over the R3 has 21 bullet points. The R1 appears to be better in many many ways.

Keep in mind, a "3" in Canon's naming structure is still very high level, so this is no disrespect to the R3, a very impressive camera. It is not surprising that there is some confusion as to just how good it is...the same is true with the R5 with some talking about how similar it is to the R1.

As you have seemed interested in a few specifics that Canon, at this time, reserves for the "1" series:

• Dual card slots of the same CFe Type B card
• Best EVF
• Largest buffer/most continuous shooting
• It's not in people's hands yet, but it does seem that there may be some ergonomic/size differences (R1 is same height as 1DXIII)
• I also suspect the AF is the best in the R1, although the R5 shares many of the AF/AE specs.

As to why was the R3 not the original R1, I suspect Canon wanted to test out eye-controlled AF, get the readout speed to be faster than mechanical so that ES was as good as mechanical shutter, and have some sort of vertical AF solution. Also, it was just an awkward transition time with the 1DXIII released in 2020.

In the end, they are simply great cameras...all of them very high end. It is not shocking that the differences are somewhat minor.

 

[neuroanatomist]

You really are saying that, unlike other brands, Canon defines a flagship camera as any camera where they use a number 1 in the name.

You really are saying that a flagship has nothing to do with features nor functionality.

You really are saying that if Canon changed the name of the R3 to R1B and the R5 to R1C and the R7 to R1D they'd all be flagships regardless of functionality.

You really are saying that if they renamed the R1 to R2 there would be no flagship.

You really are saying that?

I'm not sure if the issue is obstreperousness or obtuseness, but I am sure that this will be my last reply to you on the matter.

1. Canon manufacturers Canon cameras
2. As the manufacturer, Canon decides which models are their flagship cameras
3. Canon names cameras they've chosen to be their flagship cameras with the 1-series designation (1D-something, R1)
4. Canon names cameras that they have not chosen to be their flagship cameras with a designation other than a 1-series designation

You and I are free to opine or disagree with Canon on what should constitute their flagships or what features those cameras should have, but our opinions are totally irrelevant to Canon designating them as such.

 

[MikeGalos]

I'm not sure if the issue is obstreperousness or obtuseness, but I am sure that this will be my last reply to you on the matter.

1. Canon manufacturers Canon cameras
2. As the manufacturer, Canon decides which models are their flagship cameras
3. Canon names cameras they've chosen to be their flagship cameras with the 1-series designation (1D-something, R1)
4. Canon names cameras that they have not chosen to be their flagship cameras with a designation other than a 1-series designation

You and I are free to opine or disagree with Canon on what should constitute their flagships or what features those cameras should have, but our opinions are totally irrelevant to Canon designating them as such.

Yes. All of that is a given. The question you haven't answered, but neither has anybody, is
"What criteria does Canon use to differentiate which cameras are called Flagship and given the '1' naming and which cameras are not?"

Since by Canon's own words the R3 did not meet those unstated criteria and the R1 did there must be at least one criterion that is met by the R1 and not by the R3.

Do you understand the question now?
Do you know the answer?

So far, your answers have been the circular argument:
It's a flagship because it has a "1" name
It has a "1" name because it's a flagship

 

[Omn]

Just for the record, R1 wasn't postponed. It came on it's 4 year 1-series cycle: 2024.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[MikeGalos]

Just for the record, R1 wasn't postponed. It came on it's 4 year 1-series cycle: 2024.

We have no idea. You are presuming that the R1 was part of the same cycle as a 1-series DSLRs.
Maybe it was. Maybe it was on its own cycle since it is the first 1-level Mirrorless body.

Having them on the same cycle means that, by introducing the R1 as this cycle's 1-series body, Canon is stating that the R1 is not an additional 1-series that adds to the 1-series choices but is the replacement for the 1 D X Mark III and that the 1 D X Mark III is now an obsolete model not yet removed from the catalog.

As I said, maybe, maybe not.

If a new 1-series DSLR is announced, then the R1 was on a separate release cycle.
If not, then the R1 is the announcement of the death of the 1-series DSLR.