Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR2]

[KeithBreazeal]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

I think it's time for a backlit sensor. Also thinking a new mount that will be much wider and will accept a variety of adapters while opening up possibilities for new lens designs. I can see a version where the LCD viewfinder can pivot up and down. And step up face tracking to pupil tracking!

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

Perhaps they are driving the two halves of the dual pixels at different gain and combining in post to get more DR (16 stops?)... who knows?

Sure. So the only way this makes sense and doesn't look like a '1.03x as good sensor as the 5D4' is some core technology bump that it enjoys.

DPRAW tech funneled into an easily attainable higher base ISO DR?

Backside illumination?

The first camera with QPAF?

Then sure, this might have legs. But as written, this seems 'I don't buy it' flavored.

- A

QP or alternating rotated DP would be significant.

I have long said that nobody cares about the DR of an out of focus picture..... QPAF would be a huge thing, probably the last major barrier to a really good AF system on a mirrorless camera....

Canon has been taking their time to get into decent mirrorless cameras, here's hoping that the reason for taking so long is to do it right!

 

[FramerMCB]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

I find it rather strange that none of all those sources can tell anything about the most crucial element: lens mount. There must be quite a number of people who know this by now.

All day. This.

- A

I have been told, but I'm not reporting on it until I'm sure.

Ah...WISDOM. Right. Here. Very good sir! I applaud your restraint (and well-founded caution) with reporting in this particular feature's regard.

 

[FramerMCB]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

I will go out on a proverbial limb here:
Key (mount & sensor) features -

Mount - new (with EASY (meaning: works and works right, consistently, and not large), sturdy, weather-sealed and relatively cheap (for Canon) solution for EF and EF-s lens owners)

Sensor - 36.2 MP Backlit (BSO)

: 8)

Eye Control focus.

Superb ergonomics.

But I'm real hazy on the more precise differentiators between the 2 new Mirrorless FF models. I think the lower-end (more pro-sumer) model will probably only be somewhere between 28 & 32 MP's.

Fun times ahead!!!

 

[ethanz]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

I find it rather strange that none of all those sources can tell anything about the most crucial element: lens mount. There must be quite a number of people who know this by now.

All day. This.

- A

I have been told, but I'm not reporting on it until I'm sure.

What if a large sum of money appears at your door step?

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

What if a large sum of money appears at your door step?

No disrespect to CR Guy, but I think we'll all know when Nokishita shows us leaked pics. That'll likely be the first outing. Maybe a catalog entry of a lens (EF, EF-[something], etc.) might give it away as well.

- A

 

[sdz]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

Not buying it (this rumor).

- A

.... and that's why I kind of do. People are expecting the "same ol' Canon". There has been a fair bit of public comments by Canon that they're going to change the way they do things going forward. I hear more of it from other sources as well.

Recent sensor patents point to a new platform.

 

[BeenThere]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

Patience grasshoppers, the answers will leak soon enough.

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

Patience grasshoppers, the answers will leak soon enough.

But I’m impatient now!

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

Patience grasshoppers, the answers will leak soon enough.

But I’m impatient now!

We've had a steady drip of this every couples days for some time now. It'll be like this until September.

Remember: we haven't even started the rumored spec lists yet.

- A

 

[bokehmon22]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

I will go out on a proverbial limb here:
Key (mount & sensor) features -

Mount - new (with EASY (meaning: works and works right, consistently, and not large), sturdy, weather-sealed and relatively cheap (for Canon) solution for EF and EF-s lens owners)

Sensor - 36.2 MP Backlit (BSO)

: 8)

Eye Control focus.

Superb ergonomics.

But I'm real hazy on the more precise differentiators between the 2 new Mirrorless FF models. I think the lower-end (more pro-sumer) model will probably only be somewhere between 28 & 32 MP's.

Fun times ahead!!!

Everything sounds plausible but I don't know about 36.2mpx backlit sensor and eye control. Oh yeah they better give us 2 dual card slot for both version.

 

[Woody]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

Canon made it's big on-chip ADC sensor migration already and that's really the only way you make a sensor to get a big jump in performance these days.

Canon sensor still trails Sony/Nikon in the base ISO dynamic range by a fair margin. Quite a bit of room for improvement.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

Not buying it (this rumor).

- A

Reason:

Canon made it's big on-chip ADC sensor migration already and that's really the only way you make a sensor to get a big jump in performance these days.

that's so not true at all.

BIS and stacked sensors, not to mention dual CDS stages, and dual slope ADC's all bring their benefits that canon may or may not have already implemented.

a BIS and stacked sensor would be a dramatic jump in both performance and DR/ISO if implemented well. Consider that all the pixel substrate deals with is light gathering and all the electronics is handled by another substrate. it allows for very thin substrates for the light gathering and more complex processing on the other substrates.

ADC on sensor in reality by itself doesn't do much. it's really about how you handle your CDS (correlated double sampling) which removes error, or how you move the pixel to be closer to the edge of the chip to have a higher efficiency.

EXMOR sensors are in their 5th generation or 6th as far as just from ADC on chip.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

The 30.4mp sensor (which we haven’t confirmed with certainty) will be “very different than what is found in the EOS 5D Mark IV”.

this stands to reason. Canon's been happily applying for WAY too many advanced sensor patents to not pull a rabbit out of a hat and skip a few EXMOR generations and catch up quickly.

 

[bergstrom]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

The biggest complaint i heard about the 5d4 was the 4k vido was grat but the files were huge and just unworkable. so canon need to make compressed 4k so that we can get the 4k but not need seriously sized sd cards .

 

[3kramd5]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

The 30.4mp sensor (which we haven’t confirmed with certainty) will be “very different than what is found in the EOS 5D Mark IV”.

this stands to reason. Canon's been happily applying for WAY too many advanced sensor patents to not pull a rabbit out of a hat and skip a few EXMOR generations and catch up quickly.

Patents don’t necessarily translate into production, but didn’t they already essentially catch up (5D4)?

 

[reef58]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

I find it rather strange that none of all those sources can tell anything about the most crucial element: lens mount. There must be quite a number of people who know this by now.

All day. This.

- A

I have been told, but I'm not reporting on it until I'm sure.

So the whole "rumor" thing" just a figure of speech?

 

[tiggy@mac.com]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

I'm with AHSanford (yet again) on this, but for a different reason.

Remember when Canon would put the same damned sensor in the next rev of a camera (18.2 mp!), and then make a big deal about how it was "all new" because it had some change that affected production, but not the product? This happened over and over and over again. We came to realize after half a decade that Canon's use of the phrase did not mean what we think it means.

When you see a rumor like this that the 30.4 mp sensor will be truly different, how can you possibly not expect to have Lucy pull the football away from you at the last moment?

 

[dak723]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

We’ve now been told by a couple of people that this will not be the case. The 30.4mp sensor (which we haven’t confirmed with certainty) will be “very different than what is found in the EOS 5D Mark IV”. We would expect as such, as marketing a new mirrorless camera with a 2 year old sensor would be extremely difficult and would give a presumption that the camera would be “dead on arrival”.

Well, it is really no wonder that the trolls love this forum and are so welcome. When the admin takes the attitude of the trolls, why wouldn't they? Sensors have changed almost not one iota in the last couple generations of the Sony FF, but I guess that is OK. Canon sensors improved a couple years ago by going on-chip, so no one expects any real improvements from this point on. So marketing a 2 year old sensor that is pretty much as good as anything else out there wouldn't be difficult except for the fact that internet forums and review sites are run by ignorant people just trying to create buzz and "hits". It is DOA if enough idiots say so. If informed people say, "Hey this camera will use the excellent sensor that has proven itself in the Canon 5D IV" maybe that will be the prevailing opinion. Thanks for giving the trolls a head start on their trashing of the camera that will come.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Canon's First Full Frame Mirrorless Won't Have the Exact Same Sensors as the EOS 5D Mark IV. [CR

Patents don’t necessarily translate into production, but didn’t they already essentially catch up (5D4)?

they have done too many just to be pure research. if it was one patent sure. however there's been around 10-20 at least to do with stacked sensors in the last 6 months.

they are still around .25 to 1 EV behind EXMOR depending on how you measure DR.

while they are closer, there's still more than could be done, and also there's the possibility of them exceeding what Sony could put out of their sensors as well. it's not as if Canon couldn't leapfrog the current technology.