Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina

[Meh]

EOS 1D/1Ds
Also, we can expect Canon's new processor to be fast enough to allow for high speed and high resolution at the same time.

To please the current APS-H shooters, I could imagine Canon offering an APS-H crop-mode

I think your first statement above is correct and makes APS-H mode unnecessary... the 16MP APS-H sensor size was a compromise between pixel density, large enough pixels to get good SNR, and ability to process at 10fps. The Sony A77 is processing 12fps at 24MP so that should give us an indication that DIGIC5 or dual DIGIC5 should be able to process 10fps at about 28MP (the APS-H sensor scaled up to FF) or higher. So the only reason to implement crop mode now would be to achieve something like 20fps which probably isn't necessary but could be nice to have I suppose (not that there's any reason to think they could get the mirror up to that speed).

In a top line camera that can sell for top dollar, they can put in a huge buffer to give as many shots as they want at full resolution 10-12 fps.

 

[Bob Howland]

I always have problems differentiating between what I want and what I think will happen, but here goes

1D/1Ds - 1D4 continues unchanged. 1Ds4 introduced during October or November with 27MP FF, 8FPS and two Digic 5 processors at a price of $5500. The 1Ds4 sensor is essentially the 1D4 sensor enlarged to FF and heavily revised, meaning that Canon sets the 1D4 and 1Ds4 against each other in the marketplace. The 1Ds4 and 7D2 (see below) kill off the 1D4 within a year.

6D/3D/9D (pick your number) - Also introduced during this October or November. Approx 16MP FF sensor with outstanding high ISO image quality and DR. The body is not entry level. Rather it is the "small professional body" that was rumored last December (or thereabouts) and has focusing to match. 5-6FPS. The video quality and capabilities are also outstanding (recall that video doesn't require a lot of pixels). WRT video, this is the successor to the 5D2. Cost approximately $3000.

5D3 - Introduced at Photokina. Same body as 6D/3D/9D except with a 40MP+ sensor and 3FPS. Cost approximately $3500. The studio/landscape photographers' camera. Image quality looks a lot like the 7D/7D2 except bigger.

7D2 - Introduced at Photokina and still APS-C. Moved upmarket to replace the 1D4 as the professional sports photographers' crop camera. Body is similar to the 5D3 and 3D/6D/9D bodies, but more rugged. 12FPS and 16MP with dual Digic 5 processors. Cost: $2200.

However, may be mirrorless with an EVF, permitting ridiculously high frame rates and adding $1000 to the cost.

Other APS-C cameras - Don't know. Don't care.

 

[c.d.embrey]

... but I just don't see any compelling argument to buy into the Sony ecosphere ...

Zeiss lenses are a good reason. Some of the old/recycled Minolta lenses are as good as Canon/Nikon lenses.

I'm admittedly biased against the Sony the parent company, and have a smoldering hatred for some of their subsidiaries; but I'll gladly give credit where credit is due. I'm just not confident they're in it for the long haul.

I've used Sony professional Video Cameras for over 20 years. No complaints. My limited testing of the $600.00 Sony NEX 5n (gorgeous video) makes me think that someday soon Sony will be considered one of the best.

 

[c.d.embrey]

The POS 60D was/is a dated design, compare it to the Nikon D7000 released at the same time.

The POS 60D is the reason I bought a Sony NEX 5n. The Sony NEX 5n is the reason I'm buying a Sony NEX 7.

Cameras are just tools (not religious objects), and Canon has stopped building tools that I want/need.

 

[neuroanatomist]

1Ds4 introduced during October or November with 27MP FF

5D3... with a 40MP+ sensor and 3FPS. Cost approximately $3500.

1DsIV at 27 MP and 5DIII at 40+ MP? I think that's highly unlikely.

Other APS-C cameras - Don't know. Don't care.

Care? Not really. But the sun will rise tomorrow, govenrments will collect taxes, and we'll see a new Rebel/xxxD in 1Q2012. Everything else is up in the air...

 

[ecka]

My crystal ball says:
[Canon EOS, September 2012]

1D5 - $8000 - Oct 2011 (FF high fps)
1Ds3 - $6500
1D4 - $4500
5D3 - $2900 - Oct 2011 (1D5 sensor but less fps)
5D2 - $2400
7D2 - $1800 - Feb 2012 (new APS-C, probably 24mp, 10fps?)
7D - $1600
70D - $1200 - Aug 2012 (7D2 sensor, ~6.5fps)
60D - $1000
650D - $800 - Feb 2012 (7D2 sensor)
600D - $700
550D - $600
1100D - $500

;D

 

[jimmy156]

O/T but this attitude irritates me. I know everyone here will be a gear/tech freak, but that doesent make low end camera's "crappy" This shot for example was taken with an 1000d and 18-55 kit lens... and was highly commended in the prestigous wildlife photographer of the year award.

That's right, and great photo by the way. Please realize that most people on this forum do know that great photos can be taken with "crappy" cameras. Very cool photos can be taken with camera phones which most people, including pro photographers, carry around with them. Most gearheads on this site also have a P&S but probably a pretty good one rather than a crappy one

You do touch on a good point. There is a tendency to begin referring to anything less than the best available or even an ideal soon-to-be-announced camera to be "crappy". The 7D has been called crappy. The 5D2 focus has been called crappy. Etc. Well, that's just not true in absolute terms... comparatively, there might be some other camera that does a slightly better job at a particular feature but suddenly it's as if there's a night and day difference. The Sony sensor in the Nikon D7000 had an extra stop of DR at low ISO and suddenly every other camera out there is crap, outdated, etc. Nonsense.

To be fair, there are many pundits on here for focusing on real world image quality so there's a balance in the discussions. No one feature or attribute is the best in all situations. That's not to say each new feature or attribute isn't important. They all are under certain situations. Sports shooters need high frame rates, landscape photographers do not. Everyone can benefit from higher DR at times but not every scene has even 10 stops of DR and in fact some photos look better with less DR so the photographer will clip the shadow details in photoshop to get more contrast and many other examples.

Gear is good. Technology is good. And it's cool when camera manufacturers give us something that hasn't been possible in the past. Every camera has it's use from an iPhone all the way to a 1D4 and medium format. Film is good so is digital... they each have different benefits and limitations.

It's fun. No need for anyone to be offended or irritated except if anyone is rude or disrespectful to others and those trolls know who they are.

I agree with all of that . Just wanted to point out that the shot i posted isn't mine! Wouldn't want people to think i was trying to pass it off as such! I just thought it illustrated my point particularly well.

As for you last sentence, you're right of course, but its this sort of attitude in forums/at camera clubs etc that can put people off photography in general. Just rubs me up the wrong way! I'll get over it

 

[Bob Howland]

1Ds4 introduced during October or November with 27MP FF

5D3... with a 40MP+ sensor and 3FPS. Cost approximately $3500.

1DsIV at 27 MP and 5DIII at 40+ MP? I think that's highly unlikely.

The difference:

1Ds4 > 216 Million Pixels/Second with the most rugged body, but otherwise the most balanced of the models listed: second highest resolution, second largest pixels and second highest FPS

6D/3D/9D > 80-96 MP/S

5D3 > 120 MP/S

7D2 > 192 MP/S and the second most rugged body, but also the smallest sensor of the models listed

 

[Zuuyi]

Why do people complain so much about XXXD & XXXXD Rebels. If it wasn't for those Income boosters; the XXD & XD cameras would either not exist or cost much more. They are able to spread R&D cost to the masses.

And 99% of camera needs could be handled by the T3 kit. So please make tons of XXXD & XXXXD cameras so I can get my XD camera for a reasonable price (not Hasselblad prices).

 

[goodmane]

The more I think about this, the less I'm beginning to care! Don't get me wrong I like the Canon products I have but I've pretty much grown tired of waiting for Canon to wake up to the fact I want a good small camera.

I'm very close to ditching my Canon SLR gear and picking up a Fuji X100 and maybe eventually a Leica. I don't like that Canon are being so slow to market, they don't impress me with innovation that I care about any more, that will help me take better family photos, videos and studio shots. I want either an affordable, smallish, superfast, 45 point AF FF SLR with a flash built-in, or a small rangefinder style camera.

 

[JonJT]

The more I think about this, the less I'm beginning to care! Don't get me wrong I like the Canon products I have but I've pretty much grown tired of waiting for Canon to wake up to the fact I want a good small camera.

I'm very close to ditching my Canon SLR gear and picking up a Fuji X100 and maybe eventually a Leica. I don't like that Canon are being so slow to market, they don't impress me with innovation that I care about any more, that will help me take better family photos, videos and studio shots. I want either an affordable, smallish, superfast, 45 point AF FF SLR with a flash built-in, or a small rangefinder style camera.

A small EOS FF camera would still have large lenses though.

 

[elflord]

The more I think about this, the less I'm beginning to care! Don't get me wrong I like the Canon products I have but I've pretty much grown tired of waiting for Canon to wake up to the fact I want a good small camera.

I'm very close to ditching my Canon SLR gear and picking up a Fuji X100 and maybe eventually a Leica. I don't like that Canon are being so slow to market, they don't impress me with innovation that I care about any more, that will help me take better family photos, videos and studio shots. I want either an affordable, smallish, superfast, 45 point AF FF SLR with a flash built-in, or a small rangefinder style camera.

If someone said to you "I want a small camera with decent image quality, I don't care very much for shallow depth of field, and I want something compact and not too expensive", would you tell them to get the 5D with the 24-70mm f/2.8 ? Why not just sell it all and get the EP3 or the GH2 ? Even if/when Canon do announce a mirrorless product, their lens lineup will be 3-4 years behind micro 4/3.

 

[Meh]

The more I think about this, the less I'm beginning to care! Don't get me wrong I like the Canon products I have but I've pretty much grown tired of waiting for Canon to wake up to the fact I want a good small camera.

Canon cares about what the market wants and what they think they can sell. Frankly, there's nothing wrong with a company deciding not to enter a particular market segment. Maybe Canon is getting it right by waiting for everyone else to get it wrong and see where the market goes. Personally, I don't quite get the interchangeable lens compact segment... it's hot, people are buying them, but is it just a fad? Canon has the size and depth to wait it out.

I'm very close to ditching my Canon SLR gear and picking up a Fuji X100 and maybe eventually a Leica. I don't like that Canon are being so slow to market, they don't impress me with innovation that I care about any more, that will help me take better family photos, videos and studio shots. I want either an affordable, smallish, superfast, 45 point AF FF SLR with a flash built-in, or a small rangefinder style camera.

If you're thinking of ditching your SLR gear for an X100 or Leica then just do it you probably don't need the SLR for what it is best at. Two very different products for different photography. They don't really overlap. Are you suggesting you'll be taking studio shots with an X100? I don't think so.

Affordable, small, and pop-up flash... but also superfast and 45 point AF? Not sure all that goes together... maybe one day, not just yet.

The new Nikon V1 sounds perfect for what you need... get the pink one. Sorry, just kidding about the pink but seriously given what you said you want (other than the studio work) it just about meets your requirements.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The difference:

1Ds4 > 216 Million Pixels/Second with the most rugged body, but otherwise the most balanced of the models listed: second highest resolution, second largest pixels and second highest FPS

Sorry, Bob - I still don't see it. What's the tagline, "The Canon EOS 1-series - second-best at a bunch of stuff," or, "The 1DsIV - the most MP/s of any Canon camera!" (They'll need to put out a white paper on the critical importance of MP/s to photographers, first, of course...)

 

[Bob Howland]

The difference:

1Ds4 > 216 Million Pixels/Second with the most rugged body, but otherwise the most balanced of the models listed: second highest resolution, second largest pixels and second highest FPS

Sorry, Bob - I still don't see it. What's the tagline, "The Canon EOS 1-series - second-best at a bunch of stuff," or, "The 1DsIV - the most MP/s of any Canon camera!" (They'll need to put out a white paper on the critical importance of MP/s to photographers, first, of course...)

I'm pretty sure that most of the target market are sophisticated enough to not need a tagline. We're not talking about a FF Rebel here.

 

[unfocused]

1Ds4 introduced during October or November with 27MP FF

5D3... with a 40MP+ sensor and 3FPS. Cost approximately $3500.

1DsIV at 27 MP and 5DIII at 40+ MP? I think that's highly unlikely.

I think that's putting it mildly. I think you've got the Megapixel counts reversed. I can see a 5D in the 25-30 range and a 1Ds in the 40-50 range.

The difference:

1Ds4 > 216 Million Pixels/Second with the most rugged body, but otherwise the most balanced of the models listed: second highest resolution, second largest pixels and second highest FPS

Sorry, Bob - I still don't see it. What's the tagline, "The Canon EOS 1-series - second-best at a bunch of stuff," or, "The 1DsIV - the most MP/s of any Canon camera!" (They'll need to put out a white paper on the critical importance of MP/s to photographers, first, of course...)

+1, although I doubt if Canon will be pushing just the Megapixels with the 1DsIV. I imagine something like: highest resolution of any SLR with industry leading low-light sensitivity, frame rate and superior dynamic range.

I always have problems differentiating between what I want and what I think will happen, but here goes

7D2 - Introduced at Photokina and still APS-C. Moved upmarket to replace the 1D4 as the professional sports photographers' crop camera. Body is similar to the 5D3 and 3D/6D/9D bodies, but more rugged. 12FPS and 16MP with dual Digic 5 processors. Cost: $2200.

You had me until I got to the 16MP and the price. I'm thinking somewhere in the 21-26 megapixel range and I don't see Canon jacking up the price that much. There are a lot more enthusiasts than there are professional sports photographers. Personally, I'd be happy with the same 18 mp and some small improvements in noise, dynamic range and low light sensitivity, (Plus faster, weathersealed lenses at the wide end) but I think Canon won't want to have that much of a gap between their sensor and the competition.

 

[c.d.embrey]

Why do people complain so much about XXXD & XXXXD Rebels. If it wasn't for those Income boosters; the XXD & XD cameras would either not exist or cost much more. They are able to spread R&D cost to the masses.

And 99% of camera needs could be handled by the T3 kit. So please make tons of XXXD & XXXXD cameras so I can get my XD camera for a reasonable price (not Hasselblad prices).

Photographers take photos, NOT CAMERAS! I've had photos published that were taken with a Film Rebel.

 

[c.d.embrey]

Are you suggesting you'll be taking studio shots with an X100? I don't think so.

Terry Richardson did studio work with a Yashica T4 Film P&S. The right tool isn't always a Canon 1Ds, sometimes it's a Fuji X100 or aSony NEX 7.

 

[Zuuyi]

5d 40MP & 1Ds 27MP. NO CHANCE.

Why would I pay 7k for a 1Ds when the 5D would out spec it for 4500 (your thought 3500) less. I don't see 1.1 fps as anything important in studio photography, how fast are the lights refreshing. And the better metering is extremely nice but not $4500 nice (Again the 1Ds is for a studio where lighting is controlled).

I could see a 50MP 1Ds & 30MP 5D. But the 5D already eats at the 1Ds sales, your prediction would make the 1Ds useless.

 

[vk]

The next year is the Olympic year, and my guess is that Canon is going to update 1D-series by April in the run-up to the Olympics. Perhaps at PMA in Las Vegas in January 2012. Canon experiences a lot of competition from Nikon in PJ sector, and they just cannot afford losing in the lucrative market of 1D-series and white supertele lenses...

1Ds Mk IV is long overdue, so it must be slotted for update in 2012 as well (perhaps at Photokina after Olympics rush is over).

There is going to be no 5D Mk III until 1Ds Mk IV is released. 5D Mk II sells like hotcakes, and there is really no serious competition in the prosumer full-frame segment. On the other hand Canon would not want new 5D Mk III to affect sales of 1D/1Ds series. So the 5D Mk III must be significantly inferior the upcoming 1Ds IV / 1D V (have poorer autofocus, slower fps, etc), and thus come after the pro cameras are updated.