Here are a couple of images of the EOS R1 and EOS R5 Mark II

[sanj]

If the price of the R5ii is over $4000 I will purchase the old R5. It will probably drop on black friday anyway!

How much more than 3999 will it be??

 

[Quarkcharmed]

Highly unlikely the cooling grip would have any significant impact on hot pixels during extreme long exposures; from what I can gather you're right, it's largely a sensor design issue.

It's both sensor design and temperature; that's why cooling may help.

 

[sanj]

Canon gets ripped no matter what they do.

I like the YouTube chatter. It makes me see things from other perspectives. I am strong enough not to be swayed by thinking that I do not agree with!!

 

[sanj]

It's both sensor design and temperature; that's why cooling may help.

Hot pixels. I have never ever had an issue in the last 15 plus years...

 

[David - Sydney]

Hot pixels are the result of irregularities in the dark currents, they're hot because the dark currents are higher in them. The additional charge because of the dark currents accumulates during long exposures. Reducing overall temperature reduces dark currents and the hot pixels issue; I think it also depends on the sensor design. That, at least, is my understanding.

Now the question is, if I get an R5II, will I also need the active cooling grip to shoot long exposures...

I thought that hot pixels were due to charge leakage into the well causing them to blow out... mostly caused by contamination of the sensor when manufactured. Definitely affected by longer exposures/higher temperatures.
Maybe I have been lucky with my R5 sensor but the number of hot pixels are very low even on 2 minute exposures so I haven't even needed to clone in post or use dark frames.

How long are your exposure where this is a significant issue?

 

[Richard CN]

It's both sensor design and temperature; that's why cooling may help.

are you trying to get away from using LENR?

 

[GMCPhotographics]

If the UKP price for the R5II is £4299, then I'll pass for a few years until this drops to a more humane pricing. In the mean I'm I'm still enjoying the R6II..it's the best camera I've ever used.

 

[sanj]

there's alot more "stuff" in the cooling grip, including the fact that it has to hold a battery (maybe two?) in there as well. I do believe it's far more box-like because it has to include batteries, fan, venting, etc. and there simply isn't room.

I've seen a picture of the grip, I'm not even sure how they managed to fit everything in there.

Also and the most important fact: You aren't supposed to hold it by the grip if you have on the cooling grip. Covering up the vents with your fingers, etc. would be an unwise thing to do. It's not a portrait grip, it's there simply for cooling.

It is extremely rare that anyone would shoot 8k RAW vertical. Uff.

 

[HarryFilm]

Neuro I love ya man but not all of us are constantly out to get Canon. I am not second guessing them, but I am genuinely curious how Canon's marketing will position this. Big four digit numbers can be a big hurdle for consumers.

Are we looking at more of a:
- Like Sony and the A1, Canon feels they can charge more or less whatever they want because very few people are switching systems at this end. Nikon is the only one scrambling and trying to compete on price.
- (My hope) This is gonna be a pretty kickass rig and the bump will be justified. IIRC the 5D4 had the same launch price as the 5D3 (though admittedly that was a modest inflationary period)

Seriously though: I'm not here to rack up I told you so points.

Canon NO LONGER HAS A CHOICE! They MUST give more to the customer for the money as Apple is preparing an utter onslaught of prosumer and pro-level stills imaging and cinema camera+lens gear that have built-in 3D-XYZ depth scanning AND 64-megapixel 16-bits per RGB+Depth channel RAW still photo imaging and DCI-8K video resolution at a full 120 fps at 64-bits wide pixels IN RAW AND COMPRESSED MODES! Apple has made a versions of their M-series SOC (System on a Chip) processors for embedding into their upcoming imaging hardware that are not that power hungry BUT STILL HAVE enormous processing power fully able to do proper high-end real-time computational photography and image filtering!

I would not be surprised to see a release of new 3D-XYZ computational video and stills programmer-oriented imaging API's which will be announced during or soon after the main iPhone-16 announcements in September 2024. That would CONFIRM that the new cameras and lenses are being released sooner rather than later probably in 3rd quarter 2025 my guess!

Again, Canon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Blackmagic ALL have to up their DSLR and Cinema Camera game as a NEW ENTRANT into that market will be offering COMPELLING camera and lens hardware PLUS super-easy-to-use and RELIABLE software which will be hard to beat or even match Apple's imaging expertise! The Millennials, Gen-Z and Gen-Alphas will ALL simply move over to APPLE because of simple long-term youth-oriented branding-power and there are simply NOT ENOUGH Boomers and Gen-X'ers to maintain any meaningful marketshare for Canon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic and Blackmagic once Apple enters the cameras, lenses and imaging software marketspace! It will be a death knell for almost all of the majors.

I really see only Leica, Arri and Fuji being able to survive as full-DSLR-body and Cinema camera makers since they can simply pivot upwards in price and on-board abilities for their already expensive branding! Sony will likely pivot over to Android big-sensor super-smartphones and Canon will probably ALSO have to go towards small ruggedized action-cameras and super-smartphones with higher-frame-rate/bigger/higher-resolution image sensors and then close-down or sell-off the DSLR/Cinema camera body manufacturing divisions but keep the lens-making segment. Sigma looks like it will be BOUGHT in its entirety by Apple and Fuji looks like it will buy all of Blackmagic and Panasonic looks like it might pivot towards industrial site monitoring and multi-spectral security system imaging hardware my guess.

V

 

[sanj]

Canon NO LONGER HAS A CHOICE! They MUST give more to the customer for the money as Apple is preparing an utter onslaught of prosumer and pro-level stills imaging and cinema camera+lens gear that have built-in 3D-XYZ depth scanning AND 64-megapixel 16-bits per RGB+Depth channel RAW still photo imaging and DCI-8K video resolution at a full 120 fps at 64-bits wide pixels IN RAW AND COMPRESSED MODES! Apple has made a versions of their M-series SOC (System on a Chip) processors for embedding into their upcoming imaging hardware that are not that power hungry BUT STILL HAVE enormous processing power fully able to do proper high-end real-time computational photography and image filtering!

I would not be surprised to see a release of new 3D-XYZ computational video and stills programmer-oriented imaging API's which will be announced during or soon after the main iPhone-16 announcements in September 2024. That would CONFIRM that the new cameras and lenses are being released sooner rather than later probably in 3rd quarter 2025 my guess!

Again, Canon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Blackmagic ALL have to up their DSLR and Cinema Camera game as a NEW ENTRANT into that market will be offering COMPELLING camera and lens hardware PLUS super-easy-to-use and RELIABLE software which will be hard to beat or even match Apple's imaging expertise! The Millennials, Gen-Z and Gen-Alphas will ALL simply move over to APPLE because of simple long-term youth-oriented branding-power and there are simply NOT ENOUGH Boomers and Gen-X'ers to maintain any meaningful marketshare for Canon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic and Blackmagic once Apple enters the cameras, lenses and imaging software marketspace! It will be a death knell for almost all of the majors.

I really see only Leica, Arri and Fuji being able to survive as full-DSLR-body and Cinema camera makers since they can simply pivot upwards in price and on-board abilities for their already expensive branding! Sony will likely pivot over to Android big-sensor super-smartphones and Canon will probably ALSO have to go towards small ruggedized action-cameras and super-smartphones with higher-frame-rate/bigger/higher-resolution image sensors and then close-down or sell-off the DSLR/Cinema camera body manufacturing divisions but keep the lens-making segment. Sigma looks like it will be BOUGHT in its entirety by Apple and Fuji looks like it will buy all of Blackmagic and Panasonic looks like it might pivot towards industrial site monitoring and multi-spectral security system imaging hardware my guess.

V

Drugs.

 

[Richard CN]

Canon NO LONGER HAS A CHOICE! They MUST give more to the customer for the money as Apple is preparing an utter onslaught of prosumer and pro-level stills imaging and cinema camera+lens gear that have built-in 3D-XYZ depth scanning AND 64-megapixel 16-bits per RGB+Depth channel RAW still photo imaging and DCI-8K video resolution at a full 120 fps at 64-bits wide pixels IN RAW AND COMPRESSED MODES! Apple has made a versions of their M-series SOC (System on a Chip) processors for embedding into their upcoming imaging hardware that are not that power hungry BUT STILL HAVE enormous processing power fully able to do proper high-end real-time computational photography and image filtering!

I would not be surprised to see a release of new 3D-XYZ computational video and stills programmer-oriented imaging API's which will be announced during or soon after the main iPhone-16 announcements in September 2024. That would CONFIRM that the new cameras and lenses are being released sooner rather than later probably in 3rd quarter 2025 my guess!

Again, Canon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Blackmagic ALL have to up their DSLR and Cinema Camera game as a NEW ENTRANT into that market will be offering COMPELLING camera and lens hardware PLUS super-easy-to-use and RELIABLE software which will be hard to beat or even match Apple's imaging expertise! The Millennials, Gen-Z and Gen-Alphas will ALL simply move over to APPLE because of simple long-term youth-oriented branding-power and there are simply NOT ENOUGH Boomers and Gen-X'ers to maintain any meaningful marketshare for Canon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic and Blackmagic once Apple enters the cameras, lenses and imaging software marketspace! It will be a death knell for almost all of the majors.

I really see only Leica, Arri and Fuji being able to survive as full-DSLR-body and Cinema camera makers since they can simply pivot upwards in price and on-board abilities for their already expensive branding! Sony will likely pivot over to Android big-sensor super-smartphones and Canon will probably ALSO have to go towards small ruggedized action-cameras and super-smartphones with higher-frame-rate/bigger/higher-resolution image sensors and then close-down or sell-off the DSLR/Cinema camera body manufacturing divisions but keep the lens-making segment. Sigma looks like it will be BOUGHT in its entirety by Apple and Fuji looks like it will buy all of Blackmagic and Panasonic looks like it might pivot towards industrial site monitoring and multi-spectral security system imaging hardware my guess.

V

Welcome into the convo Harry.

How is your 32k480p camera doing these days?

 

[John Wilde]

Maybe the increase will be justified—though not by the Yen, which is weak as hell right now.

Many companies use the strategy of Price Skimming, which results in a high initial price.

 

[definedphotography]

Drugs.

doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed I tells ya

 

[nhandumuc]

Doomed!

 

[Quarkcharmed]

I thought that hot pixels were due to charge leakage into the well causing them to blow out...

Those are dark currents. For example, this paper explains the mechanism in detail:

https://www.imagesensors.org/Past%20Workshops/2005%20Workshop/2005%20Papers/37%20Pain%20et%20al.pdf

mostly caused by contamination of the sensor when manufactured. Definitely affected by longer exposures/higher temperatures.
Maybe I have been lucky with my R5 sensor but the number of hot pixels are very low even on 2 minute exposures so I haven't even needed to clone in post or use dark frames.

How long are your exposure where this is a significant issue?

Maybe you recall we had this exact conversation a few weeks ago

Canon EOS R1 Spotted in the wild at the Monaco GP

If these specs hold true on the R1 (R3mkII), then I can't wait to see the R5mkII.

www.canonrumors.com

 

[David - Sydney]

Many companies use the strategy of Price Skimming, which results in a high initial price.

Also currency hedging where on the length of the hedge can significantly impact pricing. Fuel costs for airlines is a big one for them fuel represents about a third of their total cost.
Currency impacts are also reported at a macro financial level as an outlier as they can impact overall regional business rather than modifying local prices.

In general, the local market doesn't like big swings... big drop is good for new buyers but hits the second hand market and recent buyer remorse.
Big increase is negative for new buyers.
Better option is for a "standard" price and then have a rebate for a limited time or bundle extras unless there is a permanent cost change (5Div adding clog heatsink for instance).

Smaller markets just follow another market pricing eg Australia follows the USD market for Canon pricing rather than the JPY pricing.
Another option is for a local distributor/OEM to have live pricing on their website eg the daily currency rate is used for the local pricing so it can change day to day.

 

[PGSanta]

Hot pixels. I have never ever had an issue in the last 15 plus years...

Then you're not trying extreme long exposures, or much astro. It's a real problem. Not unique to Canon, but a real problem none the less, and the R5 doesn't perform the greatest in that department.

 

[David - Sydney]

Maybe you recall we had this exact conversation a few weeks ago

Canon EOS R1 Spotted in the wild at the Monaco GP

If these specs hold true on the R1 (R3mkII), then I can't wait to see the R5mkII.

www.canonrumors.com

Alzheimer's is kicking in early... your sensor may vary

 

[Quarkcharmed]

are you trying to get away from using LENR?

LENR in the R5 does help but is extremely user-unfriendly. You shoot a 3-minute long exposure and after 3 minutes your camera is completely locked and unresponsive for another 3 minutes. You can't even turn the camera off. And all the light is gone.

 

[Richard CN]

LENR in the R5 does help but is extremely user-unfriendly. You shoot a 3-minute long exposure and after 3 minutes your camera is completely locked and unresponsive for another 3 minutes. You can't even turn the camera off. And all the light is gone.

yes. it's the same if we take stacked bias frames, etc for astrophotography, they have to be the same time length as what we are shooting.

it's honestly the most accurate way, even though it takes the longest.

it should help, but it won't replace LENR. your mileage may vary depending on how long your sessions last.

you know if you don't want to do LENR, you can read up a bit on astrophotography bias and dark frame subtraction - and do it manually before you shoot for real - it would be close enough to the final product. especially if you shoot in a relatively consistent ambient temperature.

usually I would make up one set of bias and dark frames at the ISO i tend to shoot at, and simply use that - since you are using multiple images over time, it was "good enough". Every now and then you have to update them though as the sensor ages.