Canon Announces the EOS 5D Mark IV DSLR

[E]

I'm only responding to you referring me to the 1D X Mark II instead of the 5D Mark IV. It's not really comfortable buying an even more expensive and heavy camera, that is crippled (on purpose) in comparison to Canon's 2012 model.

Ah, but that is exactly what the video market looks like. To "get it all" on a professional level you have to buy a professional video camera, and canon makes sure you'll have to do that. Yes, nobody likes it and a lot of people thought the next wave of DSLRs would do away with the need for a dedicated video camera altogether. Alas, you "only" want 120 fps, someone else "only" wants c-log and a third person "only" wants 4K HDMI out. Well, if you try to make everyone happy then gues what, you have a full-fledged video camera and suddenly a lot less people see the need to buy a dedicated video camera anymore.
I'm not saying what Canon did here was great for the consumer, I'm only saing I never expected this camera to be the holy video cow.

I don't really get why so many here does not think it is legit to complain, when Canon deliberately cripples its products? The word "video" seems to be really provocative.

Every manufacturer "deliberately" cripples their products. It's called setting a price point. Not sayin Canon couldn't have thrown the one or other bone here (how about a non-crop 4K mode with slightly lower quality due to pixel binning, probably too hardware intensive though). But I think people have to get used to the idea that DSLRs will not replace video-ventric cameras for a while, if only because manufacturers say so.
The first manufacturer to really break away from the group and "do it all" for a low pricepoint will be celebrated and will change the market forever. However, there is still no perfect, affordable alternative. And until there is you will see no such endeavor from Canon.

I don't seem to get through to you, and you seem to be answering a straw man.

You cut out this from my last answer:

"I wasn't demanding the most perfect camera in every aspect ever made, suited to make Hollywood blockbusters."

Still that is the opinion that you are defending Canon against here.

I wanted 100/120fps in Mark IV.

I would have been OK with a 1D C Mark II (or a non-crippled version of 1D X Mark II, obviously)

Canon could have done that, without destroying the market. 1 DC existed 2012. 1 DX Mark II exists (regarding slow motion), but Canon has (apparently) crippled the video quality in that one.

There is absolutely no reason to why Canon could not give us a reasonably capable camera with things they already have available in the market, other than the fact that this forum seems to hate people who use the video function that Canon added, and in the quotation I supplied earlier are proud of.

 

[IglooEater]

I'm a still photographer with a Mkiii. I don't see a compelling reason to rush for the Mkiv.

Makes sense. Many people assume that the Canon's target market for any new model is owners of the immediately previous model it replaces...but that's an unwarranted assumption.

Correct. That's a big assumption. For anyone coming from anything other than a 5D iii, 1DX, or 1DX II, it should be quite a decent upgrade.

I would rush to upgrade if I had the $. As it is I'm watching my local used 5D iii market like a hawk.

 

[.jan]

I'm a still photographer with a Mkiii. I don't see a compelling reason to rush for the Mkiv.

Makes sense. Many people assume that the Canon's target market for any new model is owners of the immediately previous model it replaces...but that's an unwarranted assumption.

Exactly, especially with enthusiasts like myself won't jump on every new camera. That being said, my good old 7D will be retiring soon. And so will my Nikon full frame gear (awful ergonomics, really).

I'm quite happy with what I'm looking at, spec wise. 8 fps would have been nicer, but that's about it with my complaints. Pricing may be a little odd, but that's gonna get a lot more reasonable soon. The 5Ds mrsp in Germany is 4065€, too, and you can get it for about 3400-3500€ now. The price dropped to this level within the first months after introduction. I expect the 5D IV to be around 3500€ early next year, which is exactly when I'm going to order mine.

 

[George D.]

Price aside, I find this "dual pixel Raw" a workflow nightmare. You have to decide whether "Left-side" bokeh is better than "Right-side" ? That's politics. Bokeh is an abstract anyway.

Then don't.
I almost never shoots brackets, but it's still nice the option exists for the few times I need it.

If it turns out Dual Pixel RAW can save my focus so that in very demanding situations I only have to shoot 5 instead of 20 frames to get a keeper, I don't mind the additional workload for the occasional pic. I'm not looking to tweak bokeh, though some people will. I'm not looking for deghosting, though it might prove valuable with some nightscape city shots.

Point is: nobody loses a thing, and I suppose the technology is here to stay. I only wish for third party converters to pick this up so I don't have to break workflow. But in the meantime if I must, so be it. I can always keep on working without except for the few most critical shots.

We'll see about this in practice. The notion you might have a better result drives you checking so. Particularly if you're using fast L glass where bokeh goes hand-in-hand.

Regardless, the 5D Mk. IV generally looks more of a success than a failure.

 

[Deleted member 378221]

You cut out this from my last answer:
"I wasn't demanding the most perfect camera in every aspect ever made, suited to make Hollywood blockbusters."

Still that is the opinion that you are defending Canon against here.

Yes, because if everyone keeps complaining about "just this one feature" you end up with a profesisonal video camera. Maybe not in your case, but the overall consensus seems to be just that. Probably was just unlucky that I quoted your post, I didn't mean to say that you personally requested all those features. But the overall majority of complainers do.

This is pretty much everything you read on forums. Complaining about Canon, with some people having very unrealistic expectations. Maybe not in your case, but my original post was not only referring to your post. Maybe should have made that clear.

 

[rfdesigner]

Thanks Canon UK, for screwing us Irish Photographers one more time!

5D4 price
Ireland €4899 https://store.canon.ie/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-body/1483C026/
UK £3629 = €4111.72 https://store.canon.co.uk/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-body/1483C026/
Germany €4065 https://store.canon.de/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-gehaeuse/1483C026/

You must think we're bloody stupid!

If it is true that your national laws require manufacturers to warranty their products for 6 years, then that is simply Canon building a full shutter repair / main board replacement cost into each and every camera sold.

Expect Canon to eat those costs?

Nothing is free.

Thank the government.

not true.. durable goods must be designed such that they could resonably be expected to last 6 years (my wording), it's not a warranty. You'd have to have some kind of proof that the goods were not built properly.

So if Canon put a shutter in only capable of lasting 3 years of normal use then the argument would be whether camera bodies are durable or disposable.

Thankfully we now (as of this year) have "class action" available to us.

EU rules state 2 year warranty, no idea how that will change after article 50 is invoked.

 

[PureClassA]

It is NOT Canon's fault that YOUR country's government that YOU voted for imposes so much additional cost and tax to bring that product in.

Maybe people should investigate further everything that factors into why the native Canon entity in their country (like Canon USA for us here) prices the units the way they do before they go popping off at Canon on here.

 

[Deleted member 378221]

We'll see about this in practice. The notion you might have a better result drives you checking so. Particularly if you're using fast L glass where bokeh goes hand-in-hand.

Well, mostly for refocusing. Once I figure out how "bad" a shot can be and still be saved I'll throw that into my shooting habits. Can I get the critical shot with DPR in 5 shots or under, great. Let's go for that because a couple minutes saved on location is worth the minute or two it takes to tweak in post.
Doesn't work consistently enough? Well, I can always shoot more to get focus right on location, which is more time spent shooting and less editing.
As long as the net result is negative it's worth giving it a try. Either way nothing is lost.
And if there's some really important once-in-a-lifetime shot I'd rather have DPR activated than not.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I wanted 100/120fps in Mark IV.

Fine. You didn't get it. Cry a little, move on. Buy a 5DIV, don't buy a 5DIV. Canon doesn't care.

 

[smorgo]

not true.. durable goods must be designed such that they could resonably be expected to last 6 years (my wording), it's not a warranty. You'd have to have some kind of proof that the goods were not built properly.

...ish

The goods have to last a reasonable amount of time, up to 6 years. The actual duration will vary according to the nature of the goods and their cost. It's all very much a grey area, but a decent supplier won't want to challenge the cost of repair in court. Apple is our poster child, here. They won't volunteer the information, but they'll repair for free within the period for most faults, with most of their goods, if you tell them you want to claim under the Sales of Goods Act. Strictly speaking, the onus is on you to prove that the fault was there from new. In practice, it doesn't seem to be necessary. Thank goodness for over-priced electronics!

 

[Ian K]

Order placed for this and the EF 24-105 f4L II.

 

[neuroanatomist]

You have to decide whether "Left-side" bokeh is better than "Right-side" ? That's politics. Bokeh is an abstract anyway.

What if "Top-side" or "Bottom-side" bokeh would be better? As I said previously, DP-RAW isn't a magic bullet.

 

[Jesse]

"Correct. That's a big assumption. For anyone coming from anything other than a 5D iii, 1DX, or 1DX II, it should be quite a decent upgrade."

Oh? I have a 5Ds and don't see it as a decent upgrade

 

[Eldar]

It is NOT Canon's fault that YOUR country's government that YOU voted for imposes so much additional cost and tax to bring that product in.

RUBBISH!
A 5DSR is priced at NOK32.495,-, incl. taxes, against a US price of $3.699, which is a multiplication factor of 8.8. 5DIV, being $200 cheaper than a 5DSR in the US, is priced at NOK40.599,-, which is a multiplication factor of 11,6. The tax system has not changed, only Canon's pricing!

 

[Jesse]

Now tell me about the goddamn DR please. Can we compete with Nikon yet or what?

 

[Mikehit]

Canon could have done that, without destroying the market. 1 DC existed 2012. 1 DX Mark II exists (regarding slow motion), but Canon has (apparently) crippled the video quality in that one.

I was really pee'd off that Nissan crippled my Qashqai by not including a 3litre v8. After all, it is possible
I was also more than a little miffed that Epson crippled my printer by limiting it to 6 colours instead of 8, even though 8 is perfectly feasible. The miserably twonks
As for my £400 Dell computer...don't get me started. Crippled by only having 6GB RAM instead of 32GB. And a measly i5 processor as well. You would have thought they could have built a better machine for another £50, eh.

Fancy them selling me products that have been designed for a specific audience within a specific price band. Who'da thunk it?

 

[transpo1]

I wanted 100/120fps in Mark IV.

Fine. You didn't get it. Cry a little, move on. Buy a 5DIV, don't buy a 5DIV. Canon doesn't care.

It's good to keep in mind, the whole point of having this forum so that people can voice their opinion, positively / negatively, and hopefully offer some constructive criticism to Canon about what they want in future models. Best case scenario is someone from Canon marketing reads the opinions and says, "hey, we're not addressing this feature set for this user / market" and adds it. I would love a full frame 4K video mode and Canon Log in the 5DIV, but I'm not going to get it and may move to Sony instead. If Canon doesn't see my target as big enough to address, that's fine, but a lot of us on here own Canon glass, love past Canon products, and would like it to go the extra mile in value for our particular need. Nothing wrong with that

 

[JoeDavid]

Did anyone see a definitive answer to the 4K video capture area? I've looked at the US and UK information and can't find anything stating that it is a central crop from the sensor like the 1DXm2. I've also not found anything stating that it uses the full width of the sensor either.

 

[sigh]

For all those hoping Canon will release a firmware update down the line to add external 4K, this isn't going to happen. Apparently the Mark IV, like the 1DXII, only comes with HDMI 1.3 and 4K is only supported by HDMI 1.4 and up. That also means that Magic Lantern have no hope getting 4K out either.

 

[3kramd5]

You have to decide whether "Left-side" bokeh is better than "Right-side" ? That's politics. Bokeh is an abstract anyway.

What if "Top-side" or "Bottom-side" bokeh would be better?

That's what rotating the camera 90° is for.