The Canon EOS R5 Mark II will not function with third-party batteries

[Canon Rumors]

I'm sure Sony is going to have to bump there's soon as well

Here's my confusion though the LP-E6NH is 2x CR18500 cells each at 3.7v, and the LP-E19 is 3x CR16500 cells again each with a nominal voltage of 3.6v each, how does Canon get 8.4v (can someone confirm thats what the sticker says on it) with the LP-E6P using off the shelf cells that they typically like to use?

This means either they did indeed put a step-up in the battery itself, and are compensating for that with a higher capacity CR18500 cell, or they switched to using a custom battery pack.

If it is the later, why wouldn't they make a bigger jump and go to say 9.6v and change the dimensions of the pack slightly and only inconvenience users once for the next 5-10 years versus the incremental change of going to 8.4v.

Also interestingly the full charge voltage of a CR18500 cell is 4.2v while the nominal charge is 3.7v, so did they possibly get to 8.4v by simply going to higher capacity cells and shift the software logic on when the battery is considered depleted.

How would the 6A discharge work? (Canon Asia spec), quite the bump from 2.13A.

 

[koenkooi]

I'm sure Sony is going to have to bump there's soon as well

Here's my confusion though the LP-E6NH is 2x CR18500 cells each at 3.7v, and the LP-E19 is 3x CR16500 cells again each with a nominal voltage of 3.6v each, how does Canon get 8.4v (can someone confirm thats what the sticker says on it) with the LP-E6P using off the shelf cells that they typically like to use?

This means either they did indeed put a step-up in the battery itself, and are compensating for that with a higher capacity CR18500 cell, or they switched to using a custom battery pack.

If it is the later, why wouldn't they make a bigger jump and go to say 9.6v and change the dimensions of the pack slightly and only inconvenience users once for the next 5-10 years versus the incremental change of going to 8.4v.

Also interestingly the full charge voltage of a CR18500 cell is 4.2v while the nominal charge is 3.7v, so did they possibly get to 8.4v by simply going to higher capacity cells and shift the software logic on when the battery is considered depleted.

The 7.4V vs 8.4V is largely a convention, simplifying things a bit: you charge batteries to 8.4V, which immediately drops to 7.4V under load. I suspect the change canon made to the labeling is largely driven by marketing.

 

[AlanF]

I'm stuggling to see what the big upgrade is with the R5ii. Sure it's got a super fast sensor read out speed, but that's only really apparent in Electronic Shutter. This mode loses about a stop of DR and is a wee bit more iso noisy. You get a lot of fps with low rolling shutter. However, does anyone really need 30-40fps? I'm kind of content with my 1st curtain 12 fps. If you are someone like me that so far hasn't needed ES, then there's little advantage in a R5ii. The EVF is supposedly "improved", however, it's the same resolution as the previous model but gets the R3's eye control, if that's importaint to you. The improvements to the AF are mostly for three indoor sports which I'm pretty sure I'd never shoot. It's a camera that needs a specific and hard to find battery and the new battery grip is way more expensive than the old one...but does pretty much the same function. It's a lot of UK money for not a lot of extra or improved features. For me, I'm not seeing much benefit for a big pile of cash.

Very much my own thoughts for my own usage. The one that does intrigue me is the AF advantage of the R5ii. The AF of the R5 is just so good I must compare how much better the R5ii is. The R5ii is a super upgrade for the remaining 5D users (and @neuroanatomist points out that they are the prime targets) but the case for current R5 users depends on their specific needs.

 

[koenkooi]

Thats true, I haven't had my coffee yet and my electronics math is slow to come online.

I still question why they need the extra power - are they making up for inefficiencies in the sensor design potentially, or somewhere else in the system? […]

The R5II added a second Digic X processor, which is very likely a power hog. I also suspect the stacked sensor needs more power, but that’s just a feeling

 

[koenkooi]

Great question, I hadn't thought about that. Oh battery drama....

My R8 with its puny LP-E19 batteries is safe

Having said that, you can’t actually buy 3rd party LP-E19 batteries that can charge camera. Patona claims to have them, but they are never in stock.

 

[Canon Rumors]

The 7.4V vs 8.4V is largely a convention, simplifying things a bit: you charge batteries to 8.4V, which immediately drops to 7.4V under load. I suspect the change canon made to the labeling is largely driven by marketing.

Milwaukee vs Dewalt vibes

 

[amattas]

How would the 6A discharge work? (Canon Asia spec), quite the bump from 2.13A.

Ok so thats interesting, so it's definitely not a step-up then.

The Panasonic NCR18500 has a nominal voltage of 3.7V, a maximum voltage of 4.2V, a capacity of 2040mAH, and a discharge rating of 2C. So that cell would still fit the bill for 6A continuous discharge if the BMC allows for it, but it would fall short on capacity.

There are some newer 18500 batteries on the market that are 2400maH. There are also a bunch of other options with the 18650 cells, but looking at the teardown of an original LP-E6 there isn't any room to go to the larger sized cell.

So more than likely they changed cell manufacturers away from Panasonic and are using an updated battery management controller. Which makes this even more frustrating, they likely could have had a battery pack capable of 6A discharge from the start - but either didn't think far enough ahead to do so, or opted not to so they could sell more batteries later.

Interestingly a faster discharge will result in more heat.

 

[amattas]

The 7.4V vs 8.4V is largely a convention, simplifying things a bit: you charge batteries to 8.4V, which immediately drops to 7.4V under load. I suspect the change canon made to the labeling is largely driven by marketing.

You probably are right, looking at the cell sizes currently on the market They could use a 2400 mAh cell, call the pack as a whole 2130 mAh, and be closer to the charge voltage to bump its rating as well.

Battery math is always funny because the output lies on a curve.

 

[kaihp]

I'm not versed on this topic, but could they really lock down the communication between the camera and battery? Could they use firmware updates to switch things up?

Yes. It's pretty much like doing https across the internet. Asymmetric keys and all that jazz.

 

[Bob Howland]

Milwaukee vs Dewalt vibes

Porter Cable did the same thing as Dewalt. I knew a fella who bought Porter Cable because he thought the batteries really were higher voltage. At least Dewalt had the excuse of having had an 18V system using Nicad batteries. They said they called it 20V to avoid confusion.

In electrical engineering, a battery is usually modeled as a perfect voltage source in series with a resistor. This resistor includes the internal resistance of the voltage source itself. I don't exactly know what Canon has done, but I'm sure that their competitors have engineers who will rapidly figure it out. I give Canon 6 months, a year tops, before other companies have introduced clone batteries.

 

[wockawocka]

Even though I\'m a 100% genuine batteries kinda guy I see this as another reason to leave a brand although to be honest I\'ve noticed every new series needs a new battery and I wonder how much it\'s really needed or if it\'s crippled.

I mean, if Canon are going to do that how about getting us some official multi battery charger that offer faster charging at the same time and make the batteries worth the outlay.

 

[amattas]

Even though I\'m a 100% genuine batteries kinda guy I see this as another reason to leave a brand although to be honest I\'ve noticed every new series needs a new battery and I wonder how much it\'s really needed or if it\'s crippled.

I mean, if Canon are going to do that how about getting us some official multi battery charger that offer faster charging at the same time and make the batteries worth the outlay.

That was exactly my point further up. An the fact of it is all the versions of the LP-E6* packs use similar CR18500 cells, likely the only factor that differs with the cells themselves is the maximum capacity, they could have likely have created a battery capable of higher continuous discharge long ago.

 

[neuroanatomist]

If I can ever afford to buy this camera, I can dump my old lp-e6 batteries into landfill or maybe even burn them.

Before that, please take a long walk off a short pier.

 

[OldDudePhotog]

Before that, please take a long walk off a short pier.

I think what neuro is saying is you should recycle them, we will run out of batteries, and other electronic components if we don't.

 

[vignes]

I ordered the R5II, may get the camera in time but the battery is in short supply. So you buy the camera and once the package battery runs out juice, you use this existing ones and find out that some of the functions don\'t work. Great job Canon. Also the E6NH battery seems to have the same capacity,, why limit this one?

 

[jam05]

Third party will soon enough figure out how to make batteries that will work on R52. Soon enough...

Yes they will adjust the amperage. Same a batteries for every other electronic device. No electronic device uses the same battery for over 25 years after they have changed versions.

 

[jam05]

Even though I\'m a 100% genuine batteries kinda guy I see this as another reason to leave a brand although to be honest I\'ve noticed every new series needs a new battery and I wonder how much it\'s really needed or if it\'s crippled.

I mean, if Canon are going to do that how about getting us some official multi battery charger that offer faster charging at the same time and make the batteries worth the outlay.

Every single electronic device on the planet that gets upgraded and requires more amps require different PS or batteries. Even weed eaters, tools, you name it. Cameras are no different. The price to pay for a device that uses batteries. Some devices even change charging devices, such as phones.

 

[jam05]

Expecting a 2024 electronic device to still run on a 20 year + old battery is absurd on its face. People need to get a grip with reality. Like expecting your new smartphone etc to still have the same exact battery requirement of one used two decades or more ago. Rediculous expectation.

 

[jam05]

Third party will soon enough figure out how to make batteries that will work on R52. Soon enough...

Yes they will adjust the amperage. Same as for batteries for every other electronic device. No electronic device uses the same battery for over 25 years after they have changed versions.

 

[jam05]

I don't know, if Canon has actively done this, they probably have it set up to either prevent it with serious encryption or the ability to nuke it in firmware. I don't think a lot of people would buy a third-party battery without knowing how it all works.

I'll ask SmallRig if they have anything they can share on the topic.

Rediculous. Canon has already stated that the amperage requirement has changed. Its a battery. Read the manual and you'll find the requirements. You may also find the battery specs. No secret. People making a big deal about nothing. PS requirements change for every single electronic device on the planet after awhile. Cameras are no different. Measure the amp output. It aint complicated.